| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Relevance of translator associations in 2022 Thread poster: Fiona Grace Peterson
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I'd be interested to hear others' thoughts on the importance/relevance of translator associations now in 2022.
How important do you think membership is?
What do they do for members in concrete terms?
Has anyone here consciously decided NOT to join an association?
All input welcome!
| | | | Kay Denney 
France
Local time: 08:23
French to English
Throughout the pandemic, the one I belonged to kept us informed of our rights, handouts to offset loss of earnings and how to apply for them, so that was most valuable.
Otherwise, they had translator cafés once a month with various people presenting interesting aspects (new tax laws, networking, responding to calls for tender etc.) which I very much enjoyed, as well as the bike ride along the river to get there.
They have a directory which has led to me getting a few ... See more Throughout the pandemic, the one I belonged to kept us informed of our rights, handouts to offset loss of earnings and how to apply for them, so that was most valuable.
Otherwise, they had translator cafés once a month with various people presenting interesting aspects (new tax laws, networking, responding to calls for tender etc.) which I very much enjoyed, as well as the bike ride along the river to get there.
They have a directory which has led to me getting a few enquiries, although I'm not sure that I have had any work from it.
I am no longer a member, because they went and changed their website and I couldn't get my payment to them, and right when they alerted me to the fact that it hadn't worked, I was too busy on several big projects for direct clients and could not take the time to work out what went wrong and how to rectify it. I shall try to reapply next year. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Joakim Braun
Sweden
Local time: 08:23
German to Swedish
+ ...
Fiona Grace Peterson wrote:
How important do you think membership is?
In terms of what? Getting jobs, networking with colleagues, updating knowledge?
For jobs I'd say zero, for the others I'll pass.
Fiona Grace Peterson wrote:
Has anyone here consciously decided NOT to join an association?
Yes.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 08:23
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| What do you want from it? | Jul 19, 2022 |
I belong to the ATA so that my name appears in their freelance register.
I belong to PEG because they have an active mailing list where one can ask questions from colleauges.
I belong to SATI because... oh because I suppose there is some kind of duty to support them.
I belong to SENSE and the VZV because of the in-person meetings (SIGs and workshops)
If you want to join an association, you must ask what motivates you. It can be as simple as a professional duty to ... See more I belong to the ATA so that my name appears in their freelance register.
I belong to PEG because they have an active mailing list where one can ask questions from colleauges.
I belong to SATI because... oh because I suppose there is some kind of duty to support them.
I belong to SENSE and the VZV because of the in-person meetings (SIGs and workshops)
If you want to join an association, you must ask what motivates you. It can be as simple as a professional duty to belong to an association that you can support with money (to do things that promote the industry), or because they help you get more work via them, or because they have a nice magazine, or because they have a forum that you can join to get assistance from experts or colleagues, or because of special in-person meetings and webinars. What are your reasons? ▲ Collapse
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| Non-joiner here | Jul 19, 2022 |
Yes, I have consciously decided not to join an association, but I am willing to be proven wrong.
By the time the question of joining came into consideration, I had already had 20 years of practice, two native languages and five working ones, and was mostly on the teaching side in the continuing professional development process, whereas most associations would not recognise my senior status as a new member. For example, at ATA, I might have to prove my skills to a test grader whom I ... See more Yes, I have consciously decided not to join an association, but I am willing to be proven wrong.
By the time the question of joining came into consideration, I had already had 20 years of practice, two native languages and five working ones, and was mostly on the teaching side in the continuing professional development process, whereas most associations would not recognise my senior status as a new member. For example, at ATA, I might have to prove my skills to a test grader whom I knew personally and whom I had seen make gross blunders in KudoZ...
Furthermore, I am not a highly social person, and my experience with various gatherings (inlcuding ProZ powwows) shows hardly any personal or business advantage in networking with totally random colleagues (as opposed to those I know and with whom I can communicate without any associations).
Finally, I do not agree with Samuel that I have a duty to support an industry association with my money. I am already giving a lot of intangible value to the industry, and having to sponsor an association for the privilege of being allowed to disseminate that intangible value from their pulpit seems a bit unfair to me.
By the way, for all intents and purposes, ProZ.com is just as much a translator association as, for example, ATA.
All arguments against my point will be greatly appreciated. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:23
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| What's the point? | Jul 19, 2022 |
I am not convinced that these associations are useful. Specifically, I have met some nice people through my pair's sub-association, but I am not impressed by the ITI here in the UK.
There is a strong gate-keeping element to the ITI's approach to membership, by which I mean that linguistic competence is not deemed sufficient: you have to be able to prove that you have been a freelancer for three years and provide two references before you are even eligible to sit the test to become a... See more I am not convinced that these associations are useful. Specifically, I have met some nice people through my pair's sub-association, but I am not impressed by the ITI here in the UK.
There is a strong gate-keeping element to the ITI's approach to membership, by which I mean that linguistic competence is not deemed sufficient: you have to be able to prove that you have been a freelancer for three years and provide two references before you are even eligible to sit the test to become a full member. I believe that condition has been applied largely to protect the vested interests of existing members by slowing the entry of newcomers (hungry competitors) to the market.
To put it another way, in my view taking the test ("the assessment") is the only fair way to determine competence. If you argue that there are aspects of competence that are not measured by the test then my rejoinder would be that it's a badly designed test, so change the test. If Ms Smith comes out of her MA course in translation and can pass the ITI membership test then to all intents and purposes she should be regarded as equivalent to a full member. Why should she have to wait three years?
I would have liked to be a member of the ITI when starting out my second career as a translator. By the time I had been doing it for three years, and was finally eligible for full membership, I was already doing fine without membership status. I am still an associate member or whatever it is, but see no reason to upgrade.
Even more important than the cost of the assessment (about £450) is the CPD requirement, which amounts to 30 hours a year. If I can earn roughly £50 an hour translating, the opportunity cost of a year of CPD is 30 x 50 = £1,500. Will the CPD I undertake provide an incremental return of £1,500 every year? I think that highly unlikely.
Some might argue that you can do CPD "when you're not busy" (which for me is seldom) but that too misses the point: my non-working time is my time, not the ITI's time. 30 hours is a week of my life that I'd rather spend with my family or friends.
If CPD cannot generate some kind of measurable return, it is no more than busy-work. If the return does not at least equal the opportunity cost, then the process of CPD destroys rather than creates value. The willingness of such associations to mandate CPD in the absence of supporting evidence surprises. It may be driven by the influence that academia seems to have retained on the ITI and on parts of the translation profession.
One rejoinder to my argument might be "Well, you learn new things by doing CPD." Fine, but I can learn new things on my own initiative without shelling out £235 a year in membership fees. To my mind, performing the job itself at a reasonable level of intensity is the best CPD. CPD in terms of workshops and seminars has clearly become CPD for the sake of CPD, or CPD for the sake of supporting the translation/interpreting ecosystem.
All this would be something of a moot point if being a member of the ITI were likely to result in clients approaching you for business and in turn in thousands of pounds in additional revenue.
I have talked to some members and the feedback is mixed. Some say that their membership has resulted in orders, some say not. I certainly know people in my pair who are members of ITI and who are struggling to get enough work, whereas I have never had a job via the ITI and I am generally busy most of the time. For the past year I have been actively turning down work. Clearly ITI membership is not a golden ticket.
So where's the benefit to me?
After paying my annual fees and spending 30 hours of CPD doing things I would not choose to do instead of working, what would I get out of it? I doubt I'd even make back the cost of my membership.
Finally, I find the ITI's attitude self-indulgent. I get a couple of emails a month from them that I do not want. I have asked to be removed from the lists and been told explicitly that these emails are "important" and therefore I must receive them. Basically they are just notifications for various events and monthly updates. Just imagine if the CEO of your electricity provider decided that they were going to send a monthly news email and not allow you to opt out because the emails are "important". The cheek of it!
The ITI needs to focus on testing pure competence rather than erecting artificial barriers to entry, and to take a more pragmatic approach to CPD that mandates fewer hours and higher quality.
More than anything, they need to remind themselves that they are not the only path to success and that without a clear value proposition they won't attract members whose self-image is already not bound up in some romanticised ideal of the translator. I'm a businessman, not a disciple of Saint Jerome. Show me the return on my investment.
Dan ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Was there ever? | Jul 19, 2022 |
I was singularly unimpressed by the ITI and SFÖ in the 90s when I started out so I left after a year or two. I seem to have managed without them.
| | | | Adieu
Ukrainian to English
+ ...
Furthermore, they tend to be quite toxic.
No thanks.
In fact, I'd happily leave this forum too if I knew of any other alternative.
My dream alternative would:
* Be a non-profit
* Ban administrative cooperation with CAT companies and agencies
* Make a mission statement of being business UNfriendly
* Encourage shaming dishonest middlemen
* Allow and encourage (!) scathing, deanonymized reviews of delinquent clients
* Not mo... See more Furthermore, they tend to be quite toxic.
No thanks.
In fact, I'd happily leave this forum too if I knew of any other alternative.
My dream alternative would:
* Be a non-profit
* Ban administrative cooperation with CAT companies and agencies
* Make a mission statement of being business UNfriendly
* Encourage shaming dishonest middlemen
* Allow and encourage (!) scathing, deanonymized reviews of delinquent clients
* Not moderate anything except shouting matches, scam ads, and referral spam
* In all other things, aim to behave like a fee-less union
[Edited at 2022-07-19 23:26 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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| Translator associations | Jul 20, 2022 |
I see being a member of a translation association as a “business card” – just like my website. I belong to:
APTRAD (I have been directly recommended for work by one of their directors and I receive their newsletter)
ATA (I have got several clients through them and I like reading their magazine)
EST (I like reading their newsletter and supporting them)
IAPTI (I like their forum)
MET (I like their online knowledge base – The Hive)
| | | | | SFT in France | Jul 20, 2022 |
I suspect Kay was referring to SFT when she spoke of website problems. I happen to know that the team at the head of SFT are tearing their hair out over that website. While it is true that the old version was rather outdated and old-fashioned, at least it worked. Recently, I have sought information about translators on the site and failed miserably. They are doing what they can to sort things out but, in the meantime, the problem persists.
The advantages of being a member of SFT tak... See more I suspect Kay was referring to SFT when she spoke of website problems. I happen to know that the team at the head of SFT are tearing their hair out over that website. While it is true that the old version was rather outdated and old-fashioned, at least it worked. Recently, I have sought information about translators on the site and failed miserably. They are doing what they can to sort things out but, in the meantime, the problem persists.
The advantages of being a member of SFT take the form of professional insurance at interesting rates, training possibilities, events in Paris and the regions, legal advice and assistance, etc. The other main benefit is the networking opportunities.
Like all associations, it depends to a large extent on the people running the show, essentially volunteers giving of their time and skills for the benefit of the community. Some are looking to raise their own profile, others are more disinterested.
Being an active member and contributing oneself is far more satisfying that remaining passive and letting others do the legwork but it is all a question of temperament. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Robert Forstag
United States
Local time: 02:23
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Minimal value | Jul 20, 2022 |
Becoming a certified member of ATA was important to me when I started doing freelance translation some 20 years ago because it was my only formal credential.
For a good 10-15 years, having the credential seemed to make a difference in getting a (more or less) steady flow of projects in a language combination in which there was a lot of competition.
Given the utter collapse of the market for Spanish-to-English translation that has occurred in the past five years, continu... See more Becoming a certified member of ATA was important to me when I started doing freelance translation some 20 years ago because it was my only formal credential.
For a good 10-15 years, having the credential seemed to make a difference in getting a (more or less) steady flow of projects in a language combination in which there was a lot of competition.
Given the utter collapse of the market for Spanish-to-English translation that has occurred in the past five years, continued ATA membership would seem entirely dispensable, especially considering that it is now possible to retain certification without being a member.
To put it mildly, the ATA hasn't exactly been a forceful and zealous advocate for translators in the face of the forces that have steadily driven down rates and eroded whatever prestige the profession may have had. Quite the contrary, it has consistently ridden the wave of prevailing trends. Just look at the ads in their magazine, and the major sponsors of their conferences.
Despite these severe limitations, I might continue my membership after it expires next year. After all, the membership fee is not high, and being listed as a certified member on their website accounts for between $500 and $2000 in business each year (mostly in small jobs requiring certified translations). And now, having passed the age of 60, I am exempt from CEU requirements (and thus no longer have to spend money on attending events or purchasing expensive disks of the conference presentations).
But the thought of going to an annual conference and receiving a canvas bag emblazoned with the names of the proud sponsors of the event, sipping cocktails offered courtesy of some CAT or MT outfit, or attending sessions on the latest tips and tricks on how to get ahead - it all gives me the heebie-jeebies.
On a positive note, the National Association of Judicial Interpreters and Translators (NAJIT) has impressed me as an organization that really does advocate for (mainly) certified court interpreters in the United States.
But since Fiona's question concerns "Translators Associations", NAJIT falls somewhat outside this scope (despite its official name).
[Edited at 2022-07-20 12:07 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 08:23
French to English
Adieu wrote:
In fact, I'd happily leave this forum too if I knew of any other alternative.
My dream alternative would:
* Make a mission statement of being business UNfriendly
And just how would that help anyone?
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Adieu wrote:
Furthermore, they tend to be quite toxic.
How?
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 08:23
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote: Adieu wrote:
Furthermore, they tend to be quite toxic. How?
Well, you're supposed to receive help from the management or from members within the association, but there is often also much criticism and judgment from fellow-members, if you do not belong to the right cliques.
In some ways, it's similar to office politics. The toxicity is part and parcel of it being an association, really.
What's more, most translator associations are either voluntary organizations entirely or make substantial use of volunteer effort, and these volunteers are all translators and editors. And the typical translator and editor tends to have either strong opinions, strong personalities, or a critical eye. This makes clashes by volunteers (with each other and/or with fellow members) within translator associations even more likely than in some other industries' associations.
| | | | Adieu
Ukrainian to English
+ ...
Kay Denney wrote: Adieu wrote:
In fact, I'd happily leave this forum too if I knew of any other alternative.
My dream alternative would:
* Make a mission statement of being business UNfriendly
And just how would that help anyone?
The amount of valid concerns and constructive discussions on here that get nipped in the bud for someone's subjective fear of alienating existing or potential sponsors or disturbing a white picket fences picture of the industry is STAGGERING. Some subforums have literally died out because only ~20% of good faith participation in the discussion "passes" and "sticks".
I would prefer a wholly different approach.
Clients and agencies aren't our friends. We are engaged in a tug of war with them over who gets to take advantage and who gets taken advantage of. Of course, a healthy temporary equilibrium would be ideal, but it is often little more than a pipe dream, usually a fleeting one at that.
We should strive to be tougher and meaner, not subservient and accomodating.
We're not geishas. We're contractors!
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