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English translation: subject to a fideicommissum residui in favor of
19:01 Nov 16, 2017
French to English translations [PRO] Law/Patents - Law (general) / Wills & inheritance
French term or phrase:charge de substitution fidéicommissaire
There is a glossary entry for this but wuth no comprehensible translation into English to my mind.
following on from the specifics of a bequest;
...ce legs est toutefois grèvé d'une charge de substitution fidéicommissaire sur les biens résiduels en faveur des descendants de Madame xxxx, en ce sens que ce qui restera du patrimoine hérité de son épouse reviendra, au décès de Monsieur yyyy aux descendants de Madame xxxx, selon la dévolution légale existant entre eux à ce moment
Explanation: A husband and his wife are married in community of property and have a mutual will. In the will, the estates are massed. The husband passes away and his wife receives all his farms, subject to a fideicommissum in favour of their son. The wife has adiated (i.e. she has accepted the conditions of the will). In the causa, reference is made to their marital status, estate massing, adiation, etc. The farms are transferred to the wife, subject to a fideicommissum in favour of their son. http://www.ghostdigest.com/articles/what-is-a-fideicommissum...
An exception to the rule that one fourth must be preserved or security given applies in the case of a joint will by spouses appointing the survivor as heir subject to a fideicommissum residui (Brown v Rickard 2 SC 314). http://www.ghostdigest.com/articles/creation-and-lapsing/548...
Whereas in terms of the joint will, dated 1 March 2000 of the late Yvonne Loots,… and surviving spouse, Albert Loots,… the parties massed their estates and bequeath their whole massed estate, including the hereinmentioned immovable property to the survivor of the subject to the following conditions: a) subject to a fideicommissum residui, upon the death of the survivor, in favour of the children of the said deceased and surviving spouse… http://www.aktepraktyk.co.za/pdf/Documents/model_answers/201...
I quite agree. As AllegroTrans suggests below, substitution fidéicommissaire sur les biens résiduels should be left in French, but I would have gone with "a 'de residuo' legacy" in square brackets - excuse my Latin! Daryo's suggestion/explanation does get the meaning perfectly, but in this particular case the explanation is already in the ST ("en ce sens que ce qui restera etc."), so putting it in a second time isn't necessary.
I would put Daryo's/Nikki's "encumbered with/by" in though, even though it sounds clumsy, but no translation can improve an ST which, in this case, is probably imperfect because, as I read it, it is the first heir who is "(le) grevé", not the legacy ....(!) Mais on ne va pas en faire tout un fromage (suisse)... http://www.futuris.ch/glossary/substitution-fideicommissaire...
Tim - while I have nothing against ancient tongues, the term has now been translated into Latin...I think Daryo's English version says it best in English. :)
Oh! Désolée pour celle-là! (je croyais qu'elle parlait du principe de droit). Les autres références, notamment dans ma réponse, sont beaucoup plus modernes (2012-2017).
J'avais remarqué votre proposition et j’allais l'appuyer, mais force est d’admettre qu’une recherche ne renvoie aucun résultat pour « de residuo bequest » et un seul pour « de residuo legacy » (suggéré pour "legs de residuo" dans The Council of Europe French-English Legal Dictionnary). Néanmoins, oui, il semble qu’il y a moyen d’éviter les affres latines. Par exemple :
On s'évite alors la recherche du mot juste, on garde l'essentiel, mais il me semble qu'on y perd les obligations fidéicommissaires (la non-aliénation, entre autres).
Je l'entends bien - mais peut-on considérer le Dictionnaire des antiquités grecques comme une référence juridique? Je pense qu'on cherche un peu trop loin. Essentiellement, il s'agit ici d'une libéralité résiduelle. N'est-il pas possible de traduire cela sans plonger dans le grec ancien?
…Il y a fidéicommis quand une personne via son testament transmet tout ou partie de son patrimoine à un bénéficiaire, en le chargeant de retransmettre ce ou ces biens à une tierce personne désignée dans l'acte. Le fidéicommis permet théoriquement au testateur de donner ses biens à quelqu’un qui ne peut légalement le recevoir, mais avec le risque de déclaration d’illégalité et au risque que le disposant intermédiaire puisse détourner le bien… Les droits français et belge modernes ignorent désormais le fidéicommis, hormis dans la doctrine qui emploie plutôt la tournure « substitution fidéicommissaire » ou « interdite ». La substitution fidéicommissaire est toutefois admise en droit suisse. https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fidéicommis
On ne sait pas si le testament est régi par le droit français, suisse ou sud-africain, mais il semble bien qu'on parle de la même chose.
Thank you for these excellent references - it certainly seems that Fideicommissum Residui is the appropriate answer, as it 100% describes the situation here. Please can you post this as the answer - it would be useful for the glossary.
It appears that with a fideicommissum, the legatee has to keep the gift for the benefit of another, whereas in this particular case, the legatee only has to bequeath what is left of it.
Many thanks for all contributions, especially Daryo for confirming what I thought - that the French words embody a deeper concept and merely translating them doesn't produce any understanding in English. I shall definitely not be translating them as such and will be putting an "explanatory" term in square brackets. Further suggestion welcome!
"reversionary bequest" doesn't correspond to the definition given for "substitution fidéicommissaire".
To get to the bottom of it, you can't use as starting point neither "substitution" nor "fidéicommissaire" on their own, but the definition of the concept of "substitution fidéicommissaire" as a one term. see refs -
I can't see any "trust" in that definition, not in the sense given to "trust" in UK law. IOW the "fidéi-" part is big fat first class red herring! And the "substitution" is not an immediate one ...
Merely curious about this, no expertise in the subject. But I found this reference https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/planning-w... In para. 3 there is a mention of a "reversionary bequest". I wondered if that might fit the bill. Just under this part there is the mention of a trust.... but no expression as far as I could see, which might neatly sum up the term asked. I hope this helps
How are you translating "Ce legs est grevé de"? There may be some overlap, but I think it would be helpful to read "être grevé d'une charge ... (sur les biens résiduels en faveur de...)" first of all and then consider the elements you have posted. There are sources online to suggest meanings for the expression "grever d'une charge", something along the lines of "to encumber", although "encumber" is to be used with care and attention in legal contexts. BTW, the term "susbstitute trustee", as suggested by François, is used in the UK too and probably fits well here.
peer agreement (net): -1
