La Salle des Pas Perdus

English translation: Concourse

17:37 Sep 12, 2009

French to English translations [PRO]
Architecture / Brochure announcing a large renovation project

French term or phrase: La Salle des Pas Perdus

For confidentiality reasons, I daren't be too specific, but I'm translating a brochure announcing a grand renovation project in a large city which includes alterations to something called "La Salle des Pas Perdus" - the "Lost Steps" Room?? Should I leave it in French, or attempt a translation? If so, what are "lost steps"? I've tried Googling but it didn't help much.
Thanks in advance for any ideas.

Jennifer Forbes KudoZ activity Questions: 115 (none open) (2 without valid answers) (4 closed without grading) Answers: 233
Local time: 10:14

English translation:Concourse

Explanation:
Le grand escalier fixe vers l'édicule débouche sur une passerelle au dessus de la cage d'escalier, qui rejoint la salle des pas perdus juste en avant des tourniquets.

The kiosk's wide staircase leads to a bridge over the escalator well to the concourse just in front of the turnstiles.

En arrière, contre une impressionnante falaise de roche, un ascenseur mène 13 m plus haut, dans la salle des pas perdus

Behind it, set against an impressive rock wall, an elevator takes you 13 metres higher to the Concourse Hall.

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Note added at 7 hrs (2009-09-13 01:08:23 GMT)
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definitions:
a wide hallway in a building where people can walk
a place where pathways or roads meet, such as in a hotel, a convention center, a railway station, an airport terminal, a hall, or other space.

Selected response from:

Howard Cooper
Local time: 04:14

Grading comment

Thanks again, Howard. Concourse it is. Sorry I couldn't be more specific, because of the need to be confidential. And thanks to all contributors.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

5 +1

La Salle des pas perdus or The hall of lost steps

Rosa Paredes

4 +1

Waiting room Or Entrance hall

Gad Kohenov

3 +2

Concourse

Howard Cooper

2 +2

The hall of lost footsteps

mohanv

departure hall, departure concourse OR foyer, vestibule, lobby

verkisto

The prancing-around area in courthouse/train station (poetic and more literal)

MatthewLaSon

Summary of reference entries provided

Viollet-le-Duc put it this way:

kashew

Discussion entries: 10

polyglot45

FYI a salle des pas perdus is NOT

07:36 Sep 13, 2009

a waiting room. It is an area, corridor large open space, etc. through which many people pass each day, a place with heavy footfall. Think of all those wasted steps per day

Jennifer Forbes

ASKER

Thank you, everyone.

07:02 Sep 13, 2009

Thank you, everyone, for your useful and informative entries. I knew about "faire les 100 pas" to mean pacing about (e.g. waiting for the baby to be born), but didn't connect it with pacing about in a waiting room.

Bourth (X)

Just to make it amply clear

22:54 Sep 12, 2009

that while to non-French airs this sounds romanto-poetic, to the French it's just an everyday term, no more poetic than something like the eupho-humourous "thunder room" for "toilet".

Richardson Lisa

France

more context please

19:24 Sep 12, 2009

I was going with the impression that this was part of an historic building/palace/monument given that you were talking about renovation etc;If this is the case follow this link http://www.tourisme-vienne.com/decouvrir/poitiers/254/la-sal... for an example, and if not then boring old waiting room it is, and a definite need to translate the term.

polyglot45

if it's a station

19:21 Sep 12, 2009

it is usually referred to as the concourse

John Detre

Canada

19:17 Sep 12, 2009

Agree with Bourth

Bourth (X)

Banal waiting room

19:04 Sep 12, 2009

Unless there's some specific reason for being poetic about it. Or "main hall" for a station.

whither has fle

France

18:49 Sep 12, 2009

well, it would be something like "The Bridge of Sighs", wouldnt it, in Venice. If I remember its the bridge which led from the prison to the place of execution..and somebody imagined that they would be sighing as they walked across. Personally thats not what I would have been doing....but you have to know the historical background to understand the meaning. I would like to know what the "pas perdus" referred to.

nordiste

France

explication "what are "lost steps" ?

18:42 Sep 12, 2009

La salle des pas perdus est un grand espace ou un grand hall dans les bâtiments publics (gare, palais de justice, aéroport) où on attend en "faisant les 100 pas" ou en tournant en rond. ;-)
Voir les gares anciennes à Paris par exemple.

Richardson Lisa

France

Translate or not

17:51 Sep 12, 2009

Hi Jenny, I've done quite a few of these and it really depends on the client.Some absolutely want it translated and others are happy with a translated version in brackets next to the originalt.If you have a look, as I just did on google you'll find plenty of translations for this in the English versions of the building's/monument's website. Personally, I prefer the brackets option or maybe a footnote to explain what the meaning is to the reader. Hope that helps

Answers

1 hr confidence:

peer agreement (net): +2

The hall of lost footsteps

Explanation:
" LA Salle des pas perdus," it has been called the hall
of lost footsteps.

Up and down, down and up, the great Hall they pace
daily, the members of His Majesty's Bar, in their black
gowns and grey wigs tall men with gownsflapping about
their knees, short men with gowns to their ankles ; big-
headed men with little wigs set awry atop of their
craniums, and their own hair showing beneath; small-
headed men with the stiff curls of their wigs well down
over their ears. And here they, or those who went
before them, have paced and loitered up and down for
almost two hundred years, ever since the Union of
Scotland and England sent our Scottish statesmen to help
to govern England as well as Scotland, and left the Parlia-
ment House in Edinburgh empty for the use of the legal
world of the Scottish Capital,- -"la Salle des pas perdus."

http://www.archive.org/stream/edinburgh00mass/edinburgh00mas...

Palais de Justice, Paris
Remarks
The Kings of France lived here, including Louis IX, who had the Sainte-Chapelle built, and Philippe le Bel, who built the Conciergerie. Later used as the Parliament, the building took the name of the Palais de Justice at the time of the Revolution. The building one visits today, much remodelled, has little in common with that ancient palace. The salle des Pas perdus corresponds to the Great Gothic Hall Philippe le Bel, and the first civil court occupies the apartment of Saint Louis

http://test.viamichelin.com/viamichelin/int/dyn/controller/D...

Scottish Bar
A pair of swing doors gives admittance to a hall
with a carved roof, hung with legal portraits, adorned
with legal statuary, lighted by windows of painted glass,
and warmed by three vast fires. This is the SALLE DES
PAS PERDUS of the Scottish Bar. Here, by a ferocious
custom, idle youths must promenade from ten till two.
From end to end, singly or in pairs or trios, the gowns
and wigs go back and forward. Through a hum of talk and
footfalls, the piping tones of a Macer announce a fresh
cause and call upon the names of those concerned.
Intelligent men have been walking here daily for ten or
twenty years without a rag of business or a shilling of
reward.

http://www.knowledgerush.com/pg/etext95/edinn10.txt.

mohanv
India
Local time: 14:44
Does not meet criteria
Works in field
Native speaker of:

Tamil

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thank you, Mohan.

1 hr confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

Waiting room Or Entrance hall

Explanation:
It's called so because all your steps in it are "lost". They don't get you anywhere. You are just marking time.

Gad Kohenov
Israel
Local time: 12:14
Does not meet criteria
Works in field
Native speaker of:

French,

Hebrew
PRO pts in category: 8

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thank you, Des (ert Fox).

3 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

La Salle des pas perdus or The hall of lost steps

Explanation:
The title of the show (La Salle des pas perdus), literally translated as “The hall of lost steps”, is an expression familiar in civil law systems and refers to a central space in a court house where lawyers and their clients consult each other. It is also used to refer to the “great entrance hall” in a stately home or chateau.
http://www.electriques.ca/filles/projets.e/salle/

Rosa Paredes
Canada
Local time: 05:14
Meets criteria
Works in field
Native speaker of:

English,

Spanish

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thank you, Rosa.

7 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +2

Concourse

Howard Cooper
Local time: 04:14
Does not meet criteria
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 4

Grading comment

Thanks again, Howard. Concourse it is. Sorry I couldn't be more specific, because of the need to be confidential. And thanks to all contributors.

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thank you, Howard.

10 hrs confidence:

departure hall, departure concourse OR foyer, vestibule, lobby

Explanation:
(1) "Hall où les voyageurs attendent le départ des trains." [from CNRTL ref, below].

My own feeling is that, in English, "hall" seems more dignified than "concourse."

(2) If the word does NOT refer to train/bus station, airport or the like, then you might find "lobby," "vestibule," "foyer," etc., to be a better fit. (From the same source, we have this older usage of Salle des pas perdus: "Antichambre d'un local administratif, d'un tribunal. ")

(3) Leaving the term in French may have you flirting with preciousness.

Reference: http://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/pas

verkisto
Local time: 05:14
Meets criteria
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thank you, Verkisto.

23 hrs confidence:

The prancing-around area in courthouse/train station (poetic and more literal)

Explanation:
Hello,

If you choose to be more poetic and faithful to the French, I would say something like this.

FYI, this is a large place as in a train station where people prance back and forth waiting. But there is usually no seating.

I hope this helps.

MatthewLaSon
Local time: 05:14
Does not meet criteria
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 16

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thank you, Matthew, but although a delightful image, I don't think prancing is right in this context.

Reference comments

1 hr peer agreement (net): +2

Reference: Viollet-le-Duc put it this way:

Reference information:
# Large vestibule communiquant aux divers bureaux et autres salles d’un hôtel de ville, d’un bâtiment administratif.

Dans un hôtel de ville, il faut en même temps de grands espaces et des bureaux, des salles de réunion vastes, des accès faciles et des pièces retirées ; de l’air, de la lumière partout. Au rez-de-chaussée, une salle des pas-perdus, large vestibule communiquant aux divers bureaux, aux salles de conseil, s’ouvrant sur un degré relativement ample et facile, conduisant au premier étage, à la grande salle, destinée aux fêtes, aux réunions publiques. — (Eugène Viollet-le-Duc, Entretiens sur l’architecture, 1872, page 122)

kashew
France
Meets criteria
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 99

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English translation: Concourse

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