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Ask me anything about subtitling
Thread poster: Max Deryagin

Anu Mukharji-Gorski  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 10:31
Member (2003)
German to English
+ ...
Thanks! Oct 21

Max Deryagin wrote:


Hi Anu,

Oof, I've never heard a good word about Monal Le. People seem to dislike it.

Of the two, I would actually recommend neither. Subtitle Edit has become the leader in the "free subtitling software for PC" segment, so it'd probably serve you best.



Wow! That was fast! Thank you so much for the suggestion. Actually I'm more worried about the tutorials than the program itself. Aegisub has some pretty good youtube tutorials: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gXF6Y-v6BE

I'll just look online for subtitle edit tutorials and then decide


Max Deryagin
 

Anu Mukharji-Gorski  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 10:31
Member (2003)
German to English
+ ...
Subtitle editor: Video is not showing my subtitles Oct 23

Hallo,

I have received a spotting file in stl from the client, have VLC (32 bit), am typing subtitles in the text box but the video is not showing any of these subtitles.

I converted stl to str online but that hasn't changed anything.

According to the tutorial whatever one types in the text box is supposed to show up on the video.

Does anyone know what I could be doing wrong?

Edited: found solution: Insert new subtitle at video
... See more
Hallo,

I have received a spotting file in stl from the client, have VLC (32 bit), am typing subtitles in the text box but the video is not showing any of these subtitles.

I converted stl to str online but that hasn't changed anything.

According to the tutorial whatever one types in the text box is supposed to show up on the video.

Does anyone know what I could be doing wrong?

Edited: found solution: Insert new subtitle at video pos next to the wave form



[Edited at 2019-10-23 21:20 GMT]
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Josephine Cassar
 

Max Deryagin  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 14:31
Member (2013)
English to Russian
TOPIC STARTER
- Oct 23

Anu Mukharji-Gorski wrote:

Hallo,

I have received a spotting file in stl from the client, have VLC (32 bit), am typing subtitles in the text box but the video is not showing any of these subtitles.

I converted stl to str online but that hasn't changed anything.

According to the tutorial whatever one types in the text box is supposed to show up on the video.

Does anyone know what I could be doing wrong?



Hi Anu,

Either you're not using the correct settings in your software, or you're lacking the video codecs required for displaying subtitles. What subtitling tool are you using?


Anu Mukharji-Gorski
 

Onur Kavalcı
Turkey
Local time: 12:31
Turkish to English
+ ...
Two Questions Oct 28

Hi Max,

If you were to teach subtitlings essentials using both practice and academic resources, which one would you choose to focus on? Let's also assume that it's a complete course with a syllabus in a renowned top university.

Also, what do you think of the reading speeds and character counts defined so precise by post production companies to fit for almost all languages? I mean, for example, a subtitle in English may have to lose its integrity and even some meaning o
... See more
Hi Max,

If you were to teach subtitlings essentials using both practice and academic resources, which one would you choose to focus on? Let's also assume that it's a complete course with a syllabus in a renowned top university.

Also, what do you think of the reading speeds and character counts defined so precise by post production companies to fit for almost all languages? I mean, for example, a subtitle in English may have to lose its integrity and even some meaning on its way to Turkish, just because of the reading speed doesn't allow one more sonant in that sentence.
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Max Deryagin  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 14:31
Member (2013)
English to Russian
TOPIC STARTER
- Oct 28

Onur Kavalcı wrote:

Hi Max,

If you were to teach subtitlings essentials using both practice and academic resources, which one would you choose to focus on? Let's also assume that it's a complete course with a syllabus in a renowned top university.

Also, what do you think of the reading speeds and character counts defined so precise by post production companies to fit for almost all languages? I mean, for example, a subtitle in English may have to lose its integrity and even some meaning on its way to Turkish, just because of the reading speed doesn't allow one more sonant in that sentence.


Hi Onur,

Great questions! Let me think...


If you were to teach subtitlings essentials using both practice and academic resources, which one would you choose to focus on? Let's also assume that it's a complete course with a syllabus in a renowned top university.


Jorge Diaz-Cintas and Aline Remael's new edition of Audiovisual Translation: Subtitling should come out hopefully sometime in 2020. The previous one has been successfully used in many universities across the world, and the new one will likely be even better, exhaustive even, with all the essentials. Plus, it will have exercises via a cloud subtitling platform. It should cover all the bases if you want to teach the basics. Please let me know if this answers your first question.


Also, what do you think of the reading speeds and character counts defined so precise by post production companies to fit for almost all languages? I mean, for example, a subtitle in English may have to lose its integrity and even some meaning on its way to Turkish, just because of the reading speed doesn't allow one more sonant in that sentence.


I absolutely agree — companies trying to shoehorn so many languages into one reading speed and character count doesn't make sense both in theory and in practice. That's why we in AVTE are working on creating national standards in collaboration with major stakeholders in the industry, which these companies would have to abide by. The Danish, Norwegian and Croatian standards have already been developed, and several more are on the way!


 

Irene Artegiani
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:31
English to Italian
+ ...
Can I intentionally overlap subtitles in Wincaps Q4? Oct 29

Hi Max,

Longtime reader of yours here. First of all thanks for your engagement in AVTE, and for your numerous posts and answers here on Proz which often made my life easier!

I have a weird questions, my current client is asking me to actually display two subtitles at the same time (in different positions of the screen) and for this job I was required to use Wincaps Q4. I have downloaded it on a monthly licence, but it's still the full product - I would generally use SE
... See more
Hi Max,

Longtime reader of yours here. First of all thanks for your engagement in AVTE, and for your numerous posts and answers here on Proz which often made my life easier!

I have a weird questions, my current client is asking me to actually display two subtitles at the same time (in different positions of the screen) and for this job I was required to use Wincaps Q4. I have downloaded it on a monthly licence, but it's still the full product - I would generally use SE or Aegisub but I'm comfortable with Wincaps, too.

However, it just won't let me overlap subtitles, even if I select the "Allow Out of Sequence" option in the settings. I can set their IN and OUT TC to overlap, but they simply won't show on screen at the same time - they are displayed each on the non-overlapping portion of their TC.

Do you know if there is a way, or shall I leave the two subs as they are now (chained) and let the video editor work it out on Premiere?

Thanks a lot!
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Max Deryagin
 

Max Deryagin  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 14:31
Member (2013)
English to Russian
TOPIC STARTER
- Oct 29

Irene Artegiani wrote:

Hi Max,

Longtime reader of yours here. First of all thanks for your engagement in AVTE, and for your numerous posts and answers here on Proz which often made my life easier!

I have a weird questions, my current client is asking me to actually display two subtitles at the same time (in different positions of the screen) and for this job I was required to use Wincaps Q4. I have downloaded it on a monthly licence, but it's still the full product - I would generally use SE or Aegisub but I'm comfortable with Wincaps, too.

However, it just won't let me overlap subtitles, even if I select the "Allow Out of Sequence" option in the settings. I can set their IN and OUT TC to overlap, but they simply won't show on screen at the same time - they are displayed each on the non-overlapping portion of their TC.

Do you know if there is a way, or shall I leave the two subs as they are now (chained) and let the video editor work it out on Premiere?

Thanks a lot!


Hi Irene,

You're welcome!

No, I don't think WinCAPS can display two subtitles at the same time in different positions; it'd probably be best to let the editor work it out. I might be wrong, though; let me send you a WinCAPS developer's contact info, so that you can ask him directly.


Irene Artegiani
 

Irene Artegiani
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:31
English to Italian
+ ...
re: intentionally overlapping subtitles Oct 29

Max Deryagin wrote:

Hi Irene,

You're welcome!

No, I don't think WinCAPS can display two subtitles at the same time in different positions; it'd probably be best to let the editor work it out. I might be wrong, though; let me send you a WinCAPS developer's contact info, so that you can ask him directly.



Thanks for this Max,

I think you're right, I'll speak to the editor then. Still, if you send me the contact info I'll try with the dev first

Cheers,
Irene


Max Deryagin
 

Anu Mukharji-Gorski  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 10:31
Member (2003)
German to English
+ ...
Keep existing time codes Nov 2

[/quote]

Hi Anu,

Either you're not using the correct settings in your software, or you're lacking the video codecs required for displaying subtitles. What subtitling tool are you using? [/quote]

Sorry, I seem to have missed your answer.

I am using Subtitle Edit.

When I "Insert a new subtitle" by clicking in the lower half of the screen, next to the wave form, everything works out fine and I see the subtitle in the video.
... See more
[/quote]

Hi Anu,

Either you're not using the correct settings in your software, or you're lacking the video codecs required for displaying subtitles. What subtitling tool are you using? [/quote]

Sorry, I seem to have missed your answer.

I am using Subtitle Edit.

When I "Insert a new subtitle" by clicking in the lower half of the screen, next to the wave form, everything works out fine and I see the subtitle in the video.

However, when I use my client's time codes and type in the text in the text box, I don't see the subtitle on the video.

And that's a problem, because the client wants me to use their time code!

Do you have any idea what I could be doing wrong? I followed their instructions and went to File -> import subtitle with manually chosen encoding ...

Regards,
Anu

[Edited at 2019-11-02 20:34 GMT]
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Josephine Cassar
 

Max Deryagin  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 14:31
Member (2013)
English to Russian
TOPIC STARTER
- Nov 2

Anu Mukharji-Gorski wrote:

Either you're not using the correct settings in your software, or you're lacking the video codecs required for displaying subtitles. What subtitling tool are you using?

Sorry, I seem to have missed your answer. It was my first time using Subtitle Edit so I was a bit confused at the beginning. It got sorted out.

My question now:

The version I am using is: Subtitle Edit 3.5.10. According to the client's manual for version 3.5.6, there is a screen titled "set video offset" in the "Video" menu. Apparently it's very important to check the "Keep existing time codes" box.

The problem is that my (newer) version doesn't seem to have a "Set video offset" screen.

Do you know how to tell the program to protect existing time codes ?

Thanks,
Anu


Hi Anu,

There's actually an even newer version of Subtitle Edit — 3.5.11. The "Set video offset" dialog box that you're looking for will appear only after you open a video file from the "Video" menu.


 

Anu Mukharji-Gorski  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 10:31
Member (2003)
German to English
+ ...
Thank you! Found it Nov 3

Max Deryagin wrote:



Hi Anu,

There's actually an even newer version of Subtitle Edit — 3.5.11. The "Set video offset" dialog box that you're looking for will appear only after you open a video file from the "Video" menu.



Thank you so much!


Max Deryagin
 

Anu Mukharji-Gorski  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 10:31
Member (2003)
German to English
+ ...
spotting template Nov 4

Hi Max,

I'd be very interested in hearing your opinion on spotting templates.

I spotted the subtitles myself for a short test. Start/end times were according to when the speakers were talking, with a slight lag so that the screen change and subtitle change didn't occur together. I came up with a final product that was comfortable to read.

However, I have now been asked to redo the subtitles and to please follow the client's spotting. Apparently words an
... See more
Hi Max,

I'd be very interested in hearing your opinion on spotting templates.

I spotted the subtitles myself for a short test. Start/end times were according to when the speakers were talking, with a slight lag so that the screen change and subtitle change didn't occur together. I came up with a final product that was comfortable to read.

However, I have now been asked to redo the subtitles and to please follow the client's spotting. Apparently words and phrases should be chosen to fit the spotting.

Now the spotting in my opinion is ... questionable. Start times are way before the speaker starts talking. End times are much to soon - the speaker is still talking and there are no subtitles ...

It could well be that the spotter does not speak the language of the video, so there are cases of subtitles ending in middle of a phrase and the next subtitle ends the phrase and has only half of the next sentence. I think the term might be "straddled". That sentences are being straddled.

Are spotting templates the norm? Is the translator supposed to have a say at all?

Regards,
Anu



[Edited at 2019-11-04 07:22 GMT]

[Edited at 2019-11-04 07:25 GMT]
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Josephine Cassar
 

Max Deryagin  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 14:31
Member (2013)
English to Russian
TOPIC STARTER
- Nov 4

Anu Mukharji-Gorski wrote:

Hi Max,

I'd be very interested in hearing your opinion on spotting templates.

I spotted the subtitles myself for a short test. Start/end times were according to when the speakers were talking, with a slight lag so that the screen change and subtitle change didn't occur together. I came up with a final product that was comfortable to read.

However, I have now been asked to redo the subtitles and to please follow the client's spotting. Apparently words and phrases should be chosen to fit the spotting.

Now the spotting in my opinion is ... questionable. Start times are way before the speaker starts talking. End times are much to soon - the speaker is still talking and there are no subtitles ...

It could well be that the spotter does not speak the language of the video, so there are cases of subtitles ending in middle of a phrase and the next subtitle ends the phrase and has only half of the next sentence. I think the term might be "straddled". That sentences are being straddled.

Are spotting templates the norm? Is the translator supposed to have a say at all?

Regards,
Anu


Hi Anu,

The few times I've been asked to translate a template file without touching the spotting, I declined. I find such requests disrespectful to the subtitler and ignorant of the best subtitling practices. But most companies — especially better ones — let you change the spotting, so it's not the norm.


Josephine Cassar
 

Carlos Castillo
Venezuela
Local time: 05:31
English to Spanish
+ ...
Difference in SCC timecodes between raw file and editor Nov 19

Hello Max,


I have been noticing a difference between the timecodes in "raw" .scc files (the file opened in any text editor) and the timecodes you see in subtitle editors, and would like to see if you know about it and could help me understand where it comes from and why.

Here's the thing, I have been delivering .scc files in drop-frame format for a company that has TV stations as client. However, I haven't been creating these files directly, I first create a .ass
... See more
Hello Max,


I have been noticing a difference between the timecodes in "raw" .scc files (the file opened in any text editor) and the timecodes you see in subtitle editors, and would like to see if you know about it and could help me understand where it comes from and why.

Here's the thing, I have been delivering .scc files in drop-frame format for a company that has TV stations as client. However, I haven't been creating these files directly, I first create a .ass or .srt file and then convert them with programs I wrote in Python. I've understood many things about the .scc format in order to be able to write these converters. Now, I received feedback fom the client saying that some captions were less than 1 second, which they shouldn't. I have been making sure that doesn't happen, but I even received a screenshot showing it and realized that those times were ahead the times in the file I sent them. Interestingly, this feedback is only about one of the two shows I caption for them, there wasn't a problem with the other one.

To confirm this, I went to a caption editor, an online one (that I can't use to do these files because it's owned by another client), and realized it also has some time behind the time in the .scc file it generates. I can't really tell you exactly how big it is because it's not consistent throughout the file. I can only tell you that it can go from 0.333 seconds to 1.4 seconds, always behind (later) in the editor. The actual correct timing for the captions is the one you see in the editor, and not the one you see in the file. If I open the video with the captions in VLC, then they always appear leading the audio. This, of course, can only be tried with videos that have the on-screen TC start at 00:00:00;00, otherwise, VLC would play the caption at that actual time. When I create the .ass or .srt files and then convert them to .scc, I play them in VLC and they are all okay. However, I'm sure the will then appear later than they should when opened in another editor.

Do you know why this happens? I could find and use another editor and fix this—which I think I'll probably have to—or create these files from scratch. However, I'd like this converter to work well and, sadly, this is something I haven't been able to detect a pattern for by myslef, like I've done for other things.

I use Aegisub for .ass and .srt files. I have Subtitle Edit, but got used to Aegisub and always preferred it. Now, I tried editing the .scc file in Subtitle Edit but, since I don't see the times in NTSC format, I don't know if it will output the file with the same issue when opened in other software or even broadcasted. I can always mentally convert the milliseconds to frames knowing the video frame rate, but when I do, I don't see that "delay" showed in these other editors.

I see I can't attach images. Here are the discrepancies on some timecodes.


.scc file in text editor | | | .scc file in client's editor (and others)

00:06:02;19 | | | 00:06:02;29

00:06:04;10 | | | 00:06:05;07

00:06:06;05 | | | 00:06:06;20

00:06:10;08 | | | 00:06:10;18

And so on...


Thank you very much in advance.
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