Pages in topic:   < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23] >
Ask me anything about subtitling
Thread poster: Max Deryagin

Janica Lundholm  Identity Verified
Local time: 11:50
English to Swedish
+ ...
How to do when three lines are needed? Apr 19, 2018

Hi,
What is the best solution for a subtitle looking like this:
-Is this right?
-Yes.
-Are you sure?

Would it be to put the first and third on the first line:
-Is this right? Are you sure?
-Yes.

Or to omit either the yes or the second question?


 

Max Deryagin  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 15:50
Member (2013)
English to Russian
TOPIC STARTER
- Apr 19, 2018

Janica Lundholm wrote:

Hi,
What is the best solution for a subtitle looking like this:
-Is this right?
-Yes.
-Are you sure?

Would it be to put the first and third on the first line:
-Is this right? Are you sure?
-Yes.

Or to omit either the yes or the second question?


Hi Janica,

Unless the client's style guide says otherwise, the best approach usually is to split the text into two subtitles:

Sub 1

-Is this right?
-Yes.


Sub 2

Are you sure?

In some cases, however, it can be tricky due to the high reading speed, prohibitive minimum duration or nearby shot changes. You need to take a look at the waveform and see how you can split the dialogue without breaking any style guide rules, which might include reducing the text, crossing a shot change that you wouldn't want to cross under normal circumstances, as well as extending the in-time of the first subtitle and the out-time of the second subtitle.


 

Janica Lundholm  Identity Verified
Local time: 11:50
English to Swedish
+ ...
Thanks! Apr 19, 2018

Thanks Max, I'll see if I can split it into two subtitles, but it's true that it's really tricky sometimes!

Max Deryagin wrote:

Janica Lundholm wrote:

Hi,
What is the best solution for a subtitle looking like this:
-Is this right?
-Yes.
-Are you sure?

Would it be to put the first and third on the first line:
-Is this right? Are you sure?
-Yes.

Or to omit either the yes or the second question?


Hi Janica,

Unless the client's style guide says otherwise, the best approach usually is to split the text into two subtitles:

Sub 1

-Is this right?
-Yes.


Sub 2

Are you sure?

In some cases, however, it can be tricky due to the high reading speed, prohibitive minimum duration or nearby shot changes. You need to take a look at the waveform and see how you can split the dialogue without breaking any style guide rules, which might include reducing the text, crossing a shot change that you wouldn't want to cross under normal circumstances, as well as extending the in-time of the first subtitle and the out-time of the second subtitle.


 

Hasan Yelok
Turkey
Local time: 13:50
English to Turkish
+ ...
Starting out Apr 24, 2018

Hi Max,

I am trying to get some work in the subtitling field, and i got some episodes from some studios. I tried e-mailing most of the subtitling/translation studios, and most of them do not even respond for some reason. Maybe they have enough translators for that language or they require experiencee people; that i am not sure.

I’d appreciate if you have some different advices to get more work in this field.


 

Max Deryagin  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 15:50
Member (2013)
English to Russian
TOPIC STARTER
- Apr 24, 2018

Hasan Yelok wrote:

Hi Max,

I am trying to get some work in the subtitling field, and i got some episodes from some studios. I tried e-mailing most of the subtitling/translation studios, and most of them do not even respond for some reason. Maybe they have enough translators for that language or they require experiencee people; that i am not sure.

I’d appreciate if you have some different advices to get more work in this field.


Hi Hasan,

The advice you're looking for has already been shared in the thread.


 

Johanna Schreiber  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 07:50
Member (2016)
English to German
+ ...
Do you speak English? May 6, 2018

Hi!

So the protagonist of this scene finds herself in a foreign country asking for directions.
I'm unable to decide if I should translate "Do you speak English?" as such, or to translate it as "Do you speak XY (target language)".

What are your thoughts on the subject?

Thanks in advance for your help!


 

jbjb  Identity Verified
Estonia
Local time: 12:50
Estonian to English
+ ...
target May 7, 2018

Using the target language might work for dubbing, although I'm not entirely sure.
In subtitles, use "Do you speak English?" and trust the viewer to understand the point of view of the protagonist.
Going with the target language there is a minefield of its own and just as weird.


 

Max Deryagin  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 15:50
Member (2013)
English to Russian
TOPIC STARTER
- May 7, 2018

Johanna Schreiber wrote:

Hi!

So the protagonist of this scene finds herself in a foreign country asking for directions.
I'm unable to decide if I should translate "Do you speak English?" as such, or to translate it as "Do you speak XY (target language)".

What are your thoughts on the subject?

Thanks in advance for your help!


I've seen the second approach used in dubbing a couple of times, and it does work well if done right, but in subtitling, as jbjb said, it's usually not a good idea.


 

Isabelle Bibloque
France
Local time: 11:50
Member (2018)
English to French
+ ...
Translating for voice over May 7, 2018

Hello,

I was asked to translate for voice over dubbing. I have experience in subtitling but never did for voice over. What is the technique for voice over ? What should I bear in mind ? I would be grateful if you would be kind enough to share your experience with me.

All the best,

Isabelle


 

Johanna Schreiber  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 07:50
Member (2016)
English to German
+ ...
Do you speak English? May 7, 2018

jbjb wrote:

Using the target language might work for dubbing, although I'm not entirely sure.
In subtitles, use "Do you speak English?" and trust the viewer to understand the point of view of the protagonist.
Going with the target language there is a minefield of its own and just as weird.


Great that was just the answer I was looking for! I thought that it wouldn't be a good idea, but then after conversing the issue with other translators, I wasn't sure anymore...

Thanks to you both jbjb and Max!


 

Max Deryagin  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 15:50
Member (2013)
English to Russian
TOPIC STARTER
- May 9, 2018

Isabelle Bibloque wrote:

Hello,

I was asked to translate for voice over dubbing. I have experience in subtitling but never did for voice over. What is the technique for voice over ? What should I bear in mind ? I would be grateful if you would be kind enough to share your experience with me.

All the best,

Isabelle


Hi Isabelle,

I'm afraid I don't know much about voice-over. This thread is about subtitling.


 

José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 08:50
English to Portuguese
+ ...
In memoriam
On dubbing vs. subtitling translation May 9, 2018

Max Deryagin wrote:

Isabelle Bibloque wrote:
I was asked to translate for voice over dubbing. I have experience in subtitling but never did for voice over. What is the technique for voice over ? What should I bear in mind ? I would be grateful if you would be kind enough to share your experience with me.


Hi Isabelle,
I'm afraid I don't know much about voice-over. This thread is about subtitling.


Maybe it's proper to discuss this matter here, as the two types of video translation do have some points in common, and specific differences.

For the record, I began translating for dubbing in 1987 (analog video, i.e. VHS tapes - though they actually dubbed on U-Matic, and later Betacam) under the guidance of a mentor/friend/client. To make a long story short, he had the blooming foreign training video distributing company he founded to run, couldn't spend so much time translating. We discovered a natural talent for it I didn't know I had. I adapted his method to develop my own.

I only got into subtitling in 2004 (digital video), learned by reading material online, and observing subtitles on TV/cinema, and adapted my working method from dubbing. One key difference is that subtitling does not require voice talent (which I really don't have), and a complete subtitling job (including DVD authoring) can be done with a standard computer, no additional equipment needed. Again, to make a long story short, in a few months I was turning video + PPT-like slides into fully interactive, subtitled DVDs.

In order to close my case, it is worth mentioning that I specialize in corporate video (training, institutional, product launch), however I have also translated feature films both for dubbing and for subtitling.

This said, let's focus on the differences.

In corporate video, there is a difference in purpose. I tried to cover this issue on this page. In feature films/TV series, both options are desirable, and spectator preferences include a larger array of criteria.

In a nutshell, subtitling translation is all about conciseness (the spectator being able to read and understand what is said while it's being said); dubbing translation is about metrics (the dubbed soundtrack giving the spectator the illusion that the actor onscreen is in fact speaking a different language).

Dubbers are voice artists. You'd be amazed at what good dubbers are able to do with their voices. The advantage for them is that they don't have to physically match their role, just the voice. For instance, the most acclaimed "sexy skinny blonde" voice I've met is a 5'2"-tall dark brunette with a wide carriage. I also met a very slim and pale dubbing director who specializes in doing "fat nigga" voices when dubbing.

However you - the translator - must help them to succeed... with adequate metrics! You must mentally match the vocal "beats" (viz. the syllables in pronunciation, not in grammar!) of your script to what the original actor says, and how they say it.

Challenges are many. One-syllable "Help!" in EN becomes "So-cor-ro!" in PT, "A-iu-to!" in IT, "Au sé-cours!" in FR, and so on. Two-syllable "dan-ger!" in EN becomes "nie-bez-pie-czeń-stwo" in PL. My major challenge in sales training films was to repeatedly handle "custom-er needs" in EN being unavoidably "ne-ces-si-da-des do cli-en-te" in PT. I always had to rebuild the entire phrase to fit it in.

When it's off-screen narration, it's much easier. All you have to do is roughly match the lime it takes to say it keeping the same pace.

Timing - when required - is simpler. Standards vary from one country to another. In Brazil - a as legacy from the 16 mm film dubbing days - we are bound to 20-sec max "loops" (they actually cut the 16 mm film into those loops for dubbing). If the same person/role speaks for more than 20 secs, there must be an adequate cut point (period/comma/pause), indicating the times for that loop.

Information for speaking is also required, like in CC, e.g. [coughs], [clears throat], etc. Keep in mind that the dubber will be listening to the audio track while doing it, so they'll have a clear idea of what it should sound like.

Foreign-language quotes are also welcome. For instance, for dubbing PT in EN, I'd write "Pindamonhangaba [peen-duh-moe-nean-gaw-bah]" (a Brazilian town).

In a nutshell, this is it about video translation for lip-sync dubbing. Of course, I've skipped a thousand details. If you ever spend, say, half a day in a professional dubbing studio, you'll learn a great number of them.

Regarding which is more difficult, after all these years, I wouldn't know. Some tools are common, the key difference IMHO is in the frame of mind, i.e. conciseness in subtitling vs. metrics in dubbing.


 

Isabelle Bibloque
France
Local time: 11:50
Member (2018)
English to French
+ ...
Translating for voice over May 10, 2018

José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:

Max Deryagin wrote:

Isabelle Bibloque wrote:
I was asked to translate for voice over dubbing. I have experience in subtitling but never did for voice over. What is the technique for voice over ? What should I bear in mind ? I would be grateful if you would be kind enough to share your experience with me.


Hi Isabelle,
I'm afraid I don't know much about voice-over. This thread is about subtitling.


Maybe it's proper to discuss this matter here, as the two types of video translation do have some points in common, and specific differences.

For the record, I began translating for dubbing in 1987 (analog video, i.e. VHS tapes - though they actually dubbed on U-Matic, and later Betacam) under the guidance of a mentor/friend/client. To make a long story short, he had the blooming foreign training video distributing company he founded to run, couldn't spend so much time translating. We discovered a natural talent for it I didn't know I had. I adapted his method to develop my own.

I only got into subtitling in 2004 (digital video), learned by reading material online, and observing subtitles on TV/cinema, and adapted my working method from dubbing. One key difference is that subtitling does not require voice talent (which I really don't have), and a complete subtitling job (including DVD authoring) can be done with a standard computer, no additional equipment needed. Again, to make a long story short, in a few months I was turning video + PPT-like slides into fully interactive, subtitled DVDs.

In order to close my case, it is worth mentioning that I specialize in corporate video (training, institutional, product launch), however I have also translated feature films both for dubbing and for subtitling.

This said, let's focus on the differences.

In corporate video, there is a difference in purpose. I tried to cover this issue on this page. In feature films/TV series, both options are desirable, and spectator preferences include a larger array of criteria.

In a nutshell, subtitling translation is all about conciseness (the spectator being able to read and understand what is said while it's being said); dubbing translation is about metrics (the dubbed soundtrack giving the spectator the illusion that the actor onscreen is in fact speaking a different language).

Dubbers are voice artists. You'd be amazed at what good dubbers are able to do with their voices. The advantage for them is that they don't have to physically match their role, just the voice. For instance, the most acclaimed "sexy skinny blonde" voice I've met is a 5'2"-tall dark brunette with a wide carriage. I also met a very slim and pale dubbing director who specializes in doing "fat nigga" voices when dubbing.

However you - the translator - must help them to succeed... with adequate metrics! You must mentally match the vocal "beats" (viz. the syllables in pronunciation, not in grammar!) of your script to what the original actor says, and how they say it.

Challenges are many. One-syllable "Help!" in EN becomes "So-cor-ro!" in PT, "A-iu-to!" in IT, "Au sé-cours!" in FR, and so on. Two-syllable "dan-ger!" in EN becomes "nie-bez-pie-czeń-stwo" in PL. My major challenge in sales training films was to repeatedly handle "custom-er needs" in EN being unavoidably "ne-ces-si-da-des do cli-en-te" in PT. I always had to rebuild the entire phrase to fit it in.

When it's off-screen narration, it's much easier. All you have to do is roughly match the lime it takes to say it keeping the same pace.

Timing - when required - is simpler. Standards vary from one country to another. In Brazil - a as legacy from the 16 mm film dubbing days - we are bound to 20-sec max "loops" (they actually cut the 16 mm film into those loops for dubbing). If the same person/role speaks for more than 20 secs, there must be an adequate cut point (period/comma/pause), indicating the times for that loop.

Information for speaking is also required, like in CC, e.g. [coughs], [clears throat], etc. Keep in mind that the dubber will be listening to the audio track while doing it, so they'll have a clear idea of what it should sound like.

Foreign-language quotes are also welcome. For instance, for dubbing PT in EN, I'd write "Pindamonhangaba [peen-duh-moe-nean-gaw-bah]" (a Brazilian town).

In a nutshell, this is it about video translation for lip-sync dubbing. Of course, I've skipped a thousand details. If you ever spend, say, half a day in a professional dubbing studio, you'll learn a great number of them.

Regarding which is more difficult, after all these years, I wouldn't know. Some tools are common, the key difference IMHO is in the frame of mind, i.e. conciseness in subtitling vs. metrics in dubbing.


Thank you so much for all this precise information. I have no idea if there should be a maximum duration for each loop. I have had no instructions whatsoever ; only the En script and video. The narrator never stops talking so I guess I should stick to the timings on the script ? I will ask for more details about it and also I have noticed, many times, the voice over artist starts a few seconds after the EN narrator. So I don't know if I should postpone the text by a few seconds or match the EN voice.
Maybe I should ask the client all these questions.


 

José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 08:50
English to Portuguese
+ ...
In memoriam
The plot thickens! May 10, 2018

Isabelle Bibloque wrote:

Thank you so much for all this precise information. I have no idea if there should be a maximum duration for each loop. I have had no instructions whatsoever ; only the En script and video. The narrator never stops talking so I guess I should stick to the timings on the script ? I will ask for more details about it and also I have noticed, many times, the voice over artist starts a few seconds after the EN narrator. So I don't know if I should postpone the text by a few seconds or match the EN voice.
Maybe I should ask the client all these questions.


So I guess it's already voice-overed, and the plan is to use your translation to have a another voice over both! What a mess!

Apparently it is narration only, so forget all I said here about lip-sync dubbing. My suggestion would be to have the audio track completely rebuilt. Get the times for the original speaker, and make an translation that can be spoken at a CONSTANT PACE to match them. In some languages everything takes longer to say than in others, and vice-versa.

I guess this is beyond your call of duty, but if there is music and sound effects, your client will have to get adequate stock music and SFX, to mix them with the new recording. Otherwise it will be a sad mess, three voices speaking different languages. It is not so certain that the new narration will always be able to always fade in before and fade out after the existing VO does, so that the existing VO is not noticeable.


 

Sylvano
Local time: 11:50
English to French
Lipsynch and voice-over are not the same thing May 11, 2018

José, you've obviously never done voice-over for documentaries, have you? It's quite different from lipsynch dubbing for fiction... In voice-over, the original language will be toned down when speakers are on-screen with translation coming over it, while the original off narration is totally erased from the soundtrack (the client will have an international version, with on-screen speakers, sound effects and blank captions only).
A few rules :
- you indicate the same TC-in as the sta
... See more
José, you've obviously never done voice-over for documentaries, have you? It's quite different from lipsynch dubbing for fiction... In voice-over, the original language will be toned down when speakers are on-screen with translation coming over it, while the original off narration is totally erased from the soundtrack (the client will have an international version, with on-screen speakers, sound effects and blank captions only).
A few rules :
- you indicate the same TC-in as the start of the source language (the person in charge of the recording and dubbing actors will do the short initial pause themselves)
- you use distinct types for narration (in bold), off lines (italics, for telephone conversations, etc.) and 'live' lines
- the pace and style of the translation is not the same for live action (people talking in 'real life' situations) and for settled interviews in front of camera or narration. The latter two should be about the same length as the original, while live action lines should always be a bit shorter than the original + narration and settled interviews are usually more formal in style and at a slower pace
- you indicate pronunciation for difficult/foreign terms (you usually have more of that in documentaries)
- you may have to use footnotes to explain/clarify some terms, references or translation choices (documentaries may prove very specific and technical, and there might be a lot of cultural adjustment necessary)
- you always check facts, names, dates, etc. (you'd be surprised...)
- in voice-over, the translator usually handles the translation of graphics (maps, captions, etc.)

But, again : before accepting a job offer, you either train yourself for the specific technique and/or you ask the client for guidance... Or you stick to what you know.
Collapse


 
Pages in topic:   < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23] >


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:


You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

Ask me anything about subtitling

Advanced search







TM-Town
Manage your TMs and Terms ... and boost your translation business

Are you ready for something fresh in the industry? TM-Town is a unique new site for you -- the freelance translator -- to store, manage and share translation memories (TMs) and glossaries...and potentially meet new clients on the basis of your prior work.

More info »
PerfectIt consistency checker
Faster Checking, Greater Accuracy

PerfectIt helps deliver error-free documents. It improves consistency, ensures quality and helps to enforce style guides. It’s a powerful tool for pro users, and comes with the assurance of a 30-day money back guarantee.

More info »



Forums
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search