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indices génomiques

Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

incongru au bataillon (Lit.)

English translation:

oddbod

Added to glossary by kashew
May 6, 2009 16:35
15 yrs ago
1 viewer *
French term

incongru au bataillon

French to English Other Idioms / Maxims / Sayings incongru au bataillon
and not inconnu
for a comic strip
I have to find an equivalent
Any ideas ?
Proposed translations (English)
3 +2 oddbod
2 +3 The absent-tease OR Nowhere to be clowned
4 anomalous, or a fake in the crowd
3 +1 Oddest man out
3 +1 Strange-r
4 [a] mélee of the mad
3 Known to none, weird/outlandish to all
2 +1 A Stranger in a Strange Land
3 Oddball
3 the absurd of the horde
3 well-none
3 surreal to be true
3 the ugly duckling
1 +1 Not one of the pack
2 ...from out of space
2 battling into the incongruous
Change log

May 6, 2009 20:25: Gayle Wallimann changed "Term asked" from "a play on words" to "incongru au bataillon"

May 15, 2009 09:05: kashew Created KOG entry

Discussion

Anne Farina (asker) May 15, 2009:
Great thanks to all of you for your help and advice
Nikki Scott-Despaigne May 8, 2009:
To Anne McConnell Actually, it meant that I did too! See you around, virtually!
Anne McConnell May 7, 2009:
Oops! Sorry, Nikki,
I thought I had read all the discussion entries -- obviously not!
Carol Gullidge May 7, 2009:
Good idea! But wait until you and the author have really thrashed out what it is he actually wants, and make this absolutely clear in the new question (remembering to put the term in the right place!). That way, you'll be in a better position to come to a decision and grade the question - which is only fair to all those who are willing to help you. Personally, I still think you need to stand your ground with him, and explain that he'll get a far better title after you've translated the text. In fact, by that stage, you probably won't need any of our help, as it'll be so obvious...
Nikki Scott-Despaigne May 7, 2009:
To Anne McConnell I had not indicated at 14h26 that I was addressing myself to Anne, the Asker... sorry that I had not made that clear! Of course you were addressing your comments to other translators. Anne the ASker's post immediately beofre mine states : I have decided to submit them all to the author, explain them and let him pick the one we'll use. " I think you will see what I mean now!
Anne Farina (asker) May 7, 2009:
To Carol and to whom it may concern I really appreciate your help. I know this is not a regular question and I don't have the feeling I'm wasting my time. I've managed to work an awful lot today -as every day apart from that. I don't want to waste anybody's time and I appreciate Helen's new suggestions. Yes, I will open a new question. Don't be surprised.
Carol Gullidge May 7, 2009:
hmmmh looks like the goalposts have been moved perhaps you should start again with a new question once you have a clearer idea of what you require of us...? A bit of fun is fine, but I'm not sure that I have the time to enter into playing games with the author, if that's what you're suggesting...? As Polyglot says, it looks as though you're going to have to be firm with this client, or you'll end up wasting an awful lot of time - and possibly ours as well. I'd be quite happy to start again once the requirements are clearer. But I don't see that it can be done as a continuation of this particular question.
Anne Farina (asker) May 7, 2009:
To all my client is open to discussion Though his English in not perfect, he has enough notions to appreciate and want to discuss ideas. He made suggestions himself. Besides, I learned today that he was the illustrator. What he now says is that he wants is to keep the "sound alike" idea. I'd rather have a "solution sonore à un jeu de mots évident"" he says. One more thing: it is a collection of 100 captions, all portraits. As it turns out, it is "100 incongrus au bataillon" so it has to be 100 something plural. He gave an example, which was "100 fous dans la foule" to give me the idea. Nothing military at all, he added.
I understand what you all say about trying to find a title before you've seen the text but to him, it's part of the game. Feel free to play it with me or not.
Anne McConnell May 7, 2009:
Choices and word play Nikki,
I was not offering this choice to a client, but to a fellow translator, which is a very different thing! I agree that a client would usually blanch at the idea of having to select among translations (especially if she or he didn't know the target language).
We need to remember that, if possible, Anne would like a play on words in English, to preserve the humor of the "inconnu au bataillon" expression turning into "incongru." It is, of course, not always possible to find equivalent puns (or spoonerisms) in the target language, but why not try? Many offerings so far translate either the "normal" term ("inconnu") OR the one substituted for it (as a pun? as a spoonerism?). Depending on the tone and context of the BD, there are possibilities for committing a similar pun in English, for once.
polyglot45 May 7, 2009:
Agree It is never a good idea to decide on a title before you have translated the body of the text (unless as a working title) and even less if you haven't even seen the text. Frankly I would have told the client politely but firmly and probably on the phone that he or she was putting the cart before the horse.
Nikki Scott-Despaigne May 7, 2009:
Anne... Just a quick word, you might meet with a strange reaction on the part of your client if you send him a bunch of suggestions and leave him to choose. Your rendering of the final text will determine which title fits best. After more than 15 years translating professionally, I could name more than one client who would throw a wobbly if I asked them to chose. There are more subtle ways of doing it and simply explaining that you have applied your mind to the task but that you prefer to wait for the final text etc, unless he has some particular reason for having to have them right now, of course!
Nikki Scott-Despaigne May 7, 2009:
Agree with Carol Carol : absolutely. Nothing else is really useful as there is apparently no particular reason to set a title now. Titles often come at the end anyway, and indeed, are sometimes a zillion light years away from the original version.
Anne Farina (asker) May 7, 2009:
To all Thanks a lot for your help. I know this was an unusual question and pretty difficult to answer. You comments and advice are precious too.
You will understand that I cannot chose a best answer. I have decided to submit them all to the author, explain them and let him pick the one we'll use. I will definatly let you know.
Bourth (X) May 6, 2009:
Yup It's all about context. Does "incongru" refer to a person, an event, etc.?
Helen Shiner May 6, 2009:
We all want to help but Carol's advice is really sensible. It would be so easy to get the wrong end of the stick or miss the point altogether (if that is not mixing metaphors).
Carol Gullidge May 6, 2009:
Translating titles Anne:

Since you're going to translate the texts at a later stage, why are you looking for the title now? By all means, choose a working (interim) title, but I invariably find that this gets changed at least once as the book progresses, and you discover more about the essence of the book and the way it's developing. And for various cultural reasons, the best TT titles often bear little resemblance to the ST title - you see that everywhere with books, films... But whatever you decide to do, you'll have plenty of time between now and completing the collection to change your mind, especially to discard any contrived title that looks clever at 1st sight but makes you cringe after a very short while - and this is often the danger when translating puns. More important to have something that reflects what the collection is about, and perhaps the tone of it (eg, lighthearted?). But these you can't ascertain until you're familiar with the collection....
Nikki Scott-Despaigne May 6, 2009:
Mission impossible For the term and who knows, it may work as an answer... No, seriously though, I go alon gwith the feeling that it is absolutely necessary to have more context. It is dangerous to translate titles of anything without having the subject matter to hand. I'm sur your client will understand. Guess work is near on professional suicide here!
Jean-Claude Gouin May 6, 2009:
MESSAGE TO CAROL ... I agree with both of your points: Context and the question.
Anne Farina (asker) May 6, 2009:
Kashew, I don't know much more than what I already told you. I will later translate these texts but I don't have them yet.
Just one more clue: The author is Berhart or Bernard Clavère. Googling him might give a clue.
Transitwrite May 6, 2009:
I think that there are so many good possibilities which have been suggested but the context is really essential here... You need to find out more IMO. Good luck.
kashew May 6, 2009:
Misfit?! What is the comic strip context: who, where, when?
Helen Shiner May 6, 2009:
Military terminology Both Dada and Surrealism abounds with military terminology in a jokey way - they both have great traditions of opposition.
Anne Farina (asker) May 6, 2009:
Don't think it's related to the army From what I know, it's more like fantasy and surrealism
polyglot45 May 6, 2009:
and do we have a reason for "bataillon"? is this related to the army or something like that?
Carol Gullidge May 6, 2009:
Ah, I didn't spot the question, lurking as it was right up there where one wouldn't think to look! It would have helped if it was in the right place (swapped with "play on words")
Helen Shiner May 6, 2009:
I can't think of a snappy title, but wonder whether if you incorporate the word 'strange' or 'stranger' you might get somewhere close to the same pun.
Anne Farina (asker) May 6, 2009:
This is for a series of short stories, comic book style
Incongru au Bataillon
100 portraits illustrés par B. sur des textes acides et surréalistes de J.T.
That's all I know. It's the title of the series.
polyglot45 May 6, 2009:
it's in the title incongru and not inconnu
kashew May 6, 2009:
Your hovercraft is full of eels! It's been a long hard day I guess, Anne.
Nikki Scott-Despaigne May 6, 2009:
J'avoue, je ne comprends pas Bonjour,
Quelle est la question, le mot, le terme etc avec lequel vous avez besoin d'un coup de main?
Carol Gullidge May 6, 2009:
and CONTEXT is probably vital if the play on words is to be meaningful
Carol Gullidge May 6, 2009:
what is the question? Sorry to be thick, but I'm not sure which is the term to be translated (A play on words; and not inconnu....???)

Proposed translations

+2
57 mins
French term (edited): a play on words
Selected

oddbod

*
Note from asker:
Thanks for your help Thanks to all
Peer comment(s):
agree Carol Gullidge : nice for a comic strip
9 mins
Came in a flash - thanks!
agree Anne-Marie Grant (X) : agree with Carol
17 mins
Came in a flash - thanks!
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Though I don't know what the final title will be, this is my favorite"
14 mins

Known to none, weird/outlandish to all

Difficile à rendre

Vraiment je m'amuse....

Something went wrong...
+1
29 mins
French term (edited): a play on words

Not one of the pack

Hello,

Can't "incongru" mean that one is "out of place" in some social circle?
au bataillon = group (unless it's referring to a military battle)

C'est très, très à difficile à dire.

I hope this helps.
Note from asker:
out of place and unknown and wierd, I'd say... I thought I might be able to come up with something using hoard
Peer comment(s):
neutral Helen Shiner : I know you are not proposing it as a answer, but 'Out of Place' might work....?
14 mins
Thank, Helen. Yes, I was thinking along those lines. It could be about a person who doesn't fit in with the rest (bataillon = herd/pack)
agree Nikki Scott-Despaigne : LIke the use of "pack" as there is some military play there too. Agree that we need a lot more context.
3 hrs
Thanks, Nikki! I agree with your comments.
Something went wrong...
36 mins
French term (edited): a play on words

anomalous, or a fake in the crowd

"Anomalous" for the entire expression (rather than "anonymous").
"A fake in the crowd" for "a face in the crowd."
This is fun! Will try to come up with more.
Something went wrong...
38 mins
French term (edited): a play on words

...from out of space

could something along these lines work?
Something went wrong...
+1
43 mins
French term (edited): a play on words

Oddest man out

Might work!
Peer comment(s):
agree Carol Gullidge : "odd man out" occurred to me while doing the housework (a pretty rare ocurrence!)
19 mins
Thanks, Carol!
Something went wrong...
+1
22 mins
French term (edited): a play on words

A Stranger in a Strange Land

Really no more than a stab. Is it something you really have to translate? Is it the title by which the comics will be known to the EN-speaking world or just an explanation in brackets to assist understanding of the FR title?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 48 mins (2009-05-06 17:23:52 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

What about 'AWOL' with its military meaning - can also be used for someone who is 'out there' (slightly mad), too?
Note from asker:
I guess the author would like it to be known in the En-speaking world. The job is for a young publisher. It's not in brackets, it't the actual title.
Peer comment(s):
agree Susan Nicholls : What about A Stranger in a Known Land?
14 hrs
Thanks, Susan
Something went wrong...
+3
1 hr

The absent-tease OR Nowhere to be clowned

I suppose it must refer to someone or something that sticks out/doesn't belong/is outlandish instead of being unheard of.

You'd probably be better off trying to find out the reason for the French title so you can find something similar in English.

Peer comment(s):
agree Anne-Marie Grant (X) : I love The absent-tease It's worth writing a story just so you can use that title!
3 mins
agree Anne McConnell : This is much more "comic-book" than my puns. Bravo!
22 hrs
agree Scott W : 'Nowhere to be clowned' = brilliant.
1 day 25 mins
Something went wrong...
+1
1 hr
French term (edited): a play on words

Strange-r

strange = weird/outlandish/unknown
stranger ='outsider' or 'even more strange'.

This suggestion might work as a snappy title

Peer comment(s):
agree Sheila Wilson : maybe even "strange or"
2 hrs
Something went wrong...
1 hr
French term (edited): a play on words

Oddball

was going to post "odd man out", but sueaberwoman got there first.

But "Oddball" probably captures enough of the meaning and humour to suffice for a snappy title
Something went wrong...
1 hr
French term (edited): a play on words

the absurd of the horde

Also a wild stab.
Something went wrong...
1 hr
French term (edited): a play on words

well-none

Not really well-known!
Something went wrong...
1 hr
French term (edited): a play on words

surreal to be true

another
Peer comment(s):
neutral Helen Shiner : This made me smile - but I don't think any of us are being surreal enough, going on titles of Surrealist journals/artwork. Ceci n'est pas une pipe, etcetera...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Treachery_of_Images//I'm talking about a mind-set.
1 hr
it's all about register and the French.....// and it IS a comic strip - not literature
Something went wrong...
3 hrs
French term (edited): a play on words

the ugly duckling

Ou bien " the outsider".
Something went wrong...
3 hrs
French term (edited): a play on words

battling into the incongruous

Whether this has any effect in context, is anybopd'ys guess!

What worries me with this one, is that if the “bataillon” in significant in the play on words, not just the “inconnu/incongru”, then we might be missing half the story. In fact, we can only look for ways of playing around with “inconnu/incongru” and the other half of the original might be more important! Knowing if and where a trade-off is necessary becomes difficult. What I mean is, do we put the accent on playing around with the first bit, or should the first bit be sacrificed as the emphasis ought to be elsewhere. We just don’t know from the info we have. May be necessary to ask the client... I certainly would!

For the formality of it :
http://fr.thefreedictionary.com/bataillon
n.m. bataillon (it. battaglione, escadron)
1. Unité militaire composée de plusieurs compagnies: Des bataillons d'infanterie. Des chefs de bataillon.
2. Groupe composé de nombreuses personnes: De gros bataillons de diplômés arrivent sur le marché de l'emploi (flot, légion).
________________________________________
FAM. Inconnu au bataillon, se dit de qqn dont personne n'a jamais entendu parler.
Larousse Pratique. © 2005 Editions Larousse.

And for the fun of it :

http://paillettesurrealiste.blogspot.com/
The same play on words has already sprung to the mind of at least one other person.




--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2009-05-06 20:17:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I deliberately placed the military accent at the head of the sentence. I like the idea of "pack" though, as that conveys a certain militariness(?*!)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2009-05-06 20:54:27 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Standing out, but not outstanding"
"Sticking out in the sticks"
"Beatniking around the bush"

Something went wrong...
23 hrs

[a] mélee of the mad

This sprang to mind. I first thought of 'a mélee of mad men', then realised there may well be mad women amongst them.

Please don't wince at the spelling FR colleagues - that is what we EN-speakers have done with your mêlée (apologies).

Mélee is quite good because it is a disorganised bunch of fighters involved in close combat, so 'in your face', if you like, like a comic might be.

And yes, I have posted before, but Anne's context changes things for me....

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 23 hrs (2009-05-07 15:59:11 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Actually, I think you could spell mêlée properly and it would still be perfectly well understood in the EN-speaking world. The Americans spell it melee with no accents.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 23 hrs (2009-05-07 16:00:10 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

No problem at all - it is an interesting problem that we all face from time to time.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 23 hrs (2009-05-07 16:14:10 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

A nest of nutters
A gaggle of grotesques
A discontinuity of the deranged/defective/demented
A clutch of crazies
Note from asker:
This seems to be more like it Helen. Sorry for all that new context but I didn't know yesterday.
Something went wrong...
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