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segunda persona plural

Spanish translation: vos, vuestra merced, vuestra señoría, etc.

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Spanish term or phrase:segunda persona plural (arcaico)
Selected answer:vos, vuestra merced, vuestra señoría, etc.
Entered by: Paul Roige (X)

07:28 Sep 6, 2005
Spanish language (monolingual) [PRO]
Art/Literary - Linguistics
Spanish term or phrase: segunda persona plural
"-Senora por favor os lo rogamos, no os enfadeis con nosotras, acabad con esta pesadilla."

El escritor construye el dialogo entre dos personas usando segunda persona plural. ?Es un estilo literario o arcaico? ?Cómo se traduce a otro idioma (no Inglés): "usted" o "tú"?
SZM
Local time: 11:23
vos
Explanation:
Es arcaico, el tipo de lenguaje que se usaba hace un siglo. No es ni "tú", ni "usted", sino "vos". Supongo que cada idioma debe de tener su forma de decirlo.
Selected response from:

Anabel Martínez
Spain
Local time: 11:23
Grading comment
Gracias, Anabel, perdón por la respuesta prolongada. Ya es claro que es una forma que no existe ni existía en nuestro idioma. La solución que he escogido es que pongo el equivalente de "Vuestra Merced, Vuestra Senoría etc." seguido por tercera persona singular. Esta forma se usaba en el siglo 19, hoy suena humorística cuando sea raramente usada entre amigos íntimos. Gracias por la ayuda.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



SUMMARY OF ALL EXPLANATIONS PROVIDED
5 +6thou/thee
Anna Moorby DipTrans
5 +2We beg you Madam, do not be angered with us
Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X)
5 +1vos
Anabel Martínez
4 +1you
Tiffany Hardy


Discussion entries: 17





  

Answers


22 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
vos


Explanation:
Es arcaico, el tipo de lenguaje que se usaba hace un siglo. No es ni "tú", ni "usted", sino "vos". Supongo que cada idioma debe de tener su forma de decirlo.

Anabel Martínez
Spain
Local time: 11:23
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in CatalanCatalan, Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in category: 16
Grading comment
Gracias, Anabel, perdón por la respuesta prolongada. Ya es claro que es una forma que no existe ni existía en nuestro idioma. La solución que he escogido es que pongo el equivalente de "Vuestra Merced, Vuestra Senoría etc." seguido por tercera persona singular. Esta forma se usaba en el siglo 19, hoy suena humorística cuando sea raramente usada entre amigos íntimos. Gracias por la ayuda.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Anna Moorby DipTrans: exactly
7 mins
  -> thanks, it seems we both arrived at the same time :)
neutral  Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X): sorry?? some Spaniards still use these forms...though only in referring to plural..not using plural to refer to one lady
7 hrs
  -> of course, it's the plural with a plural sense, but in the question it says "señora", so it talks about another use (archaic) of it. I don't see your point, as you're saying the same I'm stating
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24 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +6
thou/thee


Explanation:
This is an archaic style of Spanish, common in Cervantes and Lope de Vega etc, and is the equivalente of thou and thee in English
Hope that helps
xx

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Note added at 26 mins (2005-09-06 07:55:02 GMT)
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Oh hang on, have just seen your question, which language do you want it translated to if not English?? In which case, you should change the pairing of this question

Anna Moorby DipTrans
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:23
Native speaker of: English

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Anabel Martínez: agree with everything you said :) I believe the pair should be Spanish, unless the asker wants a specific language translation
4 mins
  -> Thanks Anabel
agree  Hugo Ferraguti: Yes, we prey thee...
20 mins
  -> cheers Hugo
agree  María Roberto (X)
3 hrs
  -> Thank u
agree  Martin Harvey
4 hrs
  -> Cheers
agree  Cecilia Della Croce
4 hrs
  -> Thanks
agree  milliecoquis: agree
6 hrs
  -> Thanks u
neutral  Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X): don't think so; thee/thou is too far back probably and in really formal situations, thee and thou did not connote formality but intimacy...
7 hrs
  -> Yep, you're right, I've done a little more research. In fact, you was used to social superiors. Thanks
neutral  Margaret Schroeder: As Jane says, "thee/thou" was the intimate form, equivalent to modern-day tú/vos.
7 hrs
  -> Thanks for the info :o)
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
you


Explanation:
Really, the only way to say vosotros/ustedes in English is to say "you" and it is understood that it is referring to everyone and not just that one person. More informal ways are "you guys" (very common in U.S.) or "you all" (colloquial - Southern U.S.). I have heard an interesting one from N.Ireland - "you's". In a formal context, none of these would be appropriate. But in conversation they could be exceptable. In the case of this passage, I would just use "you". Otherwise, you will have to make more changes to the structure of the sentence and say - For example, "Sir, we ask you and <your team> not to get angry with us and for all of you to end this nightmare". Hope this helps.

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Note added at 7 hrs 14 mins (2005-09-06 14:43:41 GMT)
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Anna Moorby DipTrans, Now, that I re-read everything, I guess it could be both ways - vos or vosotros. But don't we need to know the context to determine whether or not the speaker is referring to a group, or if the speaker is addressing the Señora respectfully using an archaic form (the vos used in Argentina and elsewhere)?

Tiffany Hardy
Spain
Local time: 11:23
Native speaker of: English

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  María Roberto (X)
42 mins
neutral  Anna Moorby DipTrans: Even though the asker has posted it as second person plural, for which your answer is fine, in fact, given the context, it is actually the singular use, and if it's Castillian Spanish, this is an archaic use
48 mins
  -> Actually, it is the vosotros form of modern day Spanish - but as stated already, only used in Spain. It has nothing to do with Vos used in Argentina, and it is not considered "thou" (which is Vos as used in the archaic form of Cervantes, etc.).
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7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +2
We beg you Madam, do not be angered with us


Explanation:
Unless this is 17th century..i would not use thee/thou. It depends on the century .....I don't exactly know the cut-off for thee or thou in English but it is certainly not 19th century...

If this is 19th century, which it might be, I would use You and the Royal We and MAdam and that would translate it...

Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X)
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in PortuguesePortuguese

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Margaret Schroeder: Or "We pray you Madam, ". In other words, using archaic vocabulary.
5 mins
  -> We pray, Madam, even better!
agree  Anna Moorby DipTrans: Yep, as I said in my comment, I think this is the way of getting around the problem. But the asker doesn't want a translation into English, just clarification about usage.
15 mins
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