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The most important thing about translation tagging is respect
Thread poster: Enrique F Granados-González

Diana Coada  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:12
Portuguese to English
+ ...
And so many here say Jan 24, 2013

that a degree in translation is unnecessary... One of the things you learn at university is how to review a translation/write a critique and how to explain your choices as a translator and this includes:

- quoting grammar rules when pointing out an error
- as the translator, explaining your strategies (borrowing, adaptation, etc.) depending on the text type, purpose, etc. and not getting defensive
- as the reviewer, providing alternatives to the translator'
... See more
that a degree in translation is unnecessary... One of the things you learn at university is how to review a translation/write a critique and how to explain your choices as a translator and this includes:

- quoting grammar rules when pointing out an error
- as the translator, explaining your strategies (borrowing, adaptation, etc.) depending on the text type, purpose, etc. and not getting defensive
- as the reviewer, providing alternatives to the translator's choices and justifying them using the above
- not making useless preferential changes

I've visited the Romanian page and the reviewer comments are somewhat unprofessional.
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Enrique F Granados-González  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 07:12
Member (2011)
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I agree Jan 24, 2013

I completely agree Diana. And, I insist, beyond these considerations I would like to highlight the necessary social conventions of education and respect.

Regards


 

Ty Kendall  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:12
Hebrew to English
Perhaps a consequence.... Jan 24, 2013

Diana Coada wrote:

that a degree in translation is unnecessary... One of the things you learn at university is how to review a translation/write a critique and how to explain your choices as a translator and this includes:

- quoting grammar rules when pointing out an error
- as the translator, explaining your strategies (borrowing, adaptation, etc.) depending on the text type, purpose, etc. and not getting defensive
- as the reviewer, providing alternatives to the translator's choices and justifying them using the above
- not making useless preferential changes

I've visited the Romanian page and the reviewer comments are somewhat unprofessional.



...of the entrants taking the competition far more seriously than ProZ themselves?

i.e. ProZ touts these contests as "a bit of fun", rather than a serious academic exercise. It might explain why the comments are equally flippant.

[Edited at 2013-01-24 13:01 GMT]


 

Diana Coada  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:12
Portuguese to English
+ ...
Maybe, Ty Jan 24, 2013

Ty Kendall wrote:

Diana Coada wrote:

that a degree in translation is unnecessary... One of the things you learn at university is how to review a translation/write a critique and how to explain your choices as a translator and this includes:

- quoting grammar rules when pointing out an error
- as the translator, explaining your strategies (borrowing, adaptation, etc.) depending on the text type, purpose, etc. and not getting defensive
- as the reviewer, providing alternatives to the translator's choices and justifying them using the above
- not making useless preferential changes

I've visited the Romanian page and the reviewer comments are somewhat unprofessional.



...of the entrants taking the competition far more seriously than ProZ themselves?

i.e. ProZ touts these contests as "a bit of fun", rather than a serious academic exercise. It might explain why the comments are equally flippant.

[Edited at 2013-01-24 13:01 GMT]


Maybe also a consequence of ''anyone can register, pay membership and claim they're a translator''.


 

Alexander Onishko  Identity Verified
Russian to English
+ ...
+100 Jan 24, 2013

Diana Coada wrote:

that a degree in translation is unnecessary... One of the things you learn at university is how to review a translation/write a critique and how to explain your choices as a translator and this includes:

- quoting grammar rules when pointing out an error
- as the translator, explaining your strategies (borrowing, adaptation, etc.) depending on the text type, purpose, etc. and not getting defensive
- as the reviewer, providing alternatives to the translator's choices and justifying them using the above
- not making useless preferential changes

I've visited the Romanian page and the reviewer comments are somewhat unprofessional.



I cannot agree more! People without proper education should not be allowed to translate.

By the way, on reviewing the texts in English to Russian I can tell you at a glance, who has a degree in translation/English and who is a "self-taught"

Also, using this occasion I would like to thank and congratulate the people who have chosen this particular English text for the contest. Brilliant job!

[Edited at 2013-01-24 14:20 GMT]


 

Ty Kendall  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:12
Hebrew to English
Is the tagging anonymous? Jan 24, 2013

If so, this would also be another factor which contributes to more subjective/personal/inappropriate remarks.

 

Alexander Onishko  Identity Verified
Russian to English
+ ...
As far as I remember from the past contests... Jan 24, 2013

Ty Kendall wrote:

If so, this would also be another factor which contributes to more subjective/personal/inappropriate remarks.


As far as I remember from past contests, the names will become visible when the voting ends. So...


 

Ty Kendall  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:12
Hebrew to English
If it ever ends.... Jan 24, 2013

Alexander Onishko wrote:
As far as I remember from past contests, the names will become visible when the voting ends. So...


These contests seem to have a knack for getting stuck in certain phases indefinitely....


 

Alexander Onishko  Identity Verified
Russian to English
+ ...
Let's... Jan 24, 2013

Ty Kendall wrote:

Alexander Onishko wrote:
As far as I remember from past contests, the names will become visible when the voting ends. So...


These contests seem to have a knack for getting stuck in certain phases indefinitely....


Let's hope for the best


 

Ambrose Li  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 01:12
Member (2011)
Chinese to English
+ ...
I don’t know what to say Jan 24, 2013

Diana Coada wrote:

that a degree in translation is unnecessary... One of the things you learn at university is how to review a translation/write a critique and how to explain your choices as a translator and this includes:

- quoting grammar rules when pointing out an error
- as the translator, explaining your strategies (borrowing, adaptation, etc.) depending on the text type, purpose, etc. and not getting defensive
- as the reviewer, providing alternatives to the translator's choices and justifying them using the above
- not making useless preferential changes



I don’t have a degree in translation myself, but I’ve always thought that even if you are not a professional that’s more or less the way you should at least strive to work.

In any case, the system they use for these contests don’t even facilitate making proper comments and defenses: the comment fields are far too short (for certain errors that require lengthy explanation) and there is no mechanism for translators to contest disagreements. There was this one comment I wrote that I didn’t think was very long but after I saved it it was cut it half, the second half nowhere to be found.


 

Phil Hand  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 14:12
Chinese to English
I wish there were more collaborative reviews on Proz Jan 24, 2013

Isn't there a new forum for review? I keep meaning to use it, but of course we can't put real jobs up there. I will definitely post my version of the competition text after voting closes.

If we had a lot of threads in which the very professional Prozians showed how they review (and showed what not to say!), it might be helpful for people entering the business.


 

Diana Coada  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:12
Portuguese to English
+ ...
Agree! Jan 24, 2013

Ambrose Li wrote:

I don’t have a degree in translation myself, but I’ve always thought that even if you are not a professional that’s more or less the way you should at least strive to work.


Yes, Ambrose, but it is obvious that many colleagues do not know of the correct way to critique and/or defend their choices, as proved by comments such as ''it just sounds better'' and so on.

By the way, I never said that a degree makes you 100% professional I see Phil is a bit offended. There are good and bad professionals with and without degrees, but Phil, even the best self-taught translators should strive to attend a professional course every now and then and so should the people entering the business.

In any case, the system they use for these contests don’t even facilitate making proper comments and defenses: the comment fields are far too short (for certain errors that require lengthy explanation) and there is no mechanism for translators to contest disagreements. There was this one comment I wrote that I didn’t think was very long but after I saved it it was cut it half, the second half nowhere to be found.


I agree again!

[Edited at 2013-01-24 17:46 GMT]


 

Phil Hand  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 14:12
Chinese to English
Don't read between the lines! Jan 24, 2013

Diana Coada wrote:

By the way, I never said that a degree makes you 100% professional I see Phil is a bit offended. There are good and bad professionals with and without degrees, but Phil, even the best self-taught translators should strive to attend a professional course every now and then and so should the people entering the business.


Diana, you're reading things into my posting that just weren't there! I wasn't offended at all, I thought your post was very sensible. You're right that one of the benefits a translation degree would bring is experience with reviewing and commentary on the work of other translators.

I have a translation degree myself, you know! I'm not knocking them.

At the same time, we must recognise that not all translators do have translation degrees; and that even among those who do, proofreading is still an area where there is a lot of disagreement. I was just suggesting another way that we as a community can help to raise standards in proofreading/review is by doing more reviews online. Many translators have literally never seen how others proofread. We develop our own styles, and hope that they are right. But I'd love to see how some of my Proz colleagues do it: what they focus on, how they rate different errors, what notation they use.

I once sent two alternative translations to a very skilled friend and colleague for his opinion - I was hoping he'd support my version in an argument. He did agree with me, but his reasoning was completely unlike the way I think about translation. The very first thing he identified as important was the punctuation. It's something I never think about at all. I was shocked by that, and it made me realise that it would be very useful to collaborate more and see what else I can learn from my smart colleagues.


 

Enrique F Granados-González  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 07:12
Member (2011)
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Definitely Jan 24, 2013

Chapeau Phil!!!!!!!! That's the attitude.

 
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