Apr 23, 2009 07:41
15 yrs ago
1 viewer *
French term

jouer/se jouer

French to English Art/Literary Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting sculpture/mixed media
Tel un alchimiste-enfant, l'artiste joue avec toutes les matières et se joue de toutes les difficultés.
How can one express the nuance?

Discussion

kashew (asker) Apr 23, 2009:
Ex: "alchimiste-enfant" Jim Dine, qualifié tour à tour d’artiste pop ou print junkie, étiquettes par trop catégorisantes, revendique pour lui-même le terme d’hokusaï, c’est-à-dire « vieux garçon fou d’estampes ». Mais n’est-il que cela ? Puisant son inspiration chez les plus grands lithographes tels que Rembrandt, Munch, Giorgio Morandi, l’alchimiste-enfant en quête d’une forme émotionnelle ontologique se place aux côtés de Picasso ou de David Hockney, artistes qui ont également travaillé avec A. Crommelynck. En choisissant Pinocchio, il troque le jouet-pistolet de Lichtenstein pour un jouet moins brutal, plus évocateur, riche des possibles d’une véritable quête, avec ses erreurs et ses errances (l’école buissonnière, les mauvaises rencontres) et au bout du compte, la promesse d’une récompense, sous la forme d’une belle lithographie. - Transatlantica
kashew (asker) Apr 23, 2009:
Nearly there! I think I'm going for infant-alchemist: it has a nice Dylan Thomas sound to it in the middle - ...fantal..! Then get the child thing in later.
[I thought of the Sorcerer's Apprentice thing too!]
Tony M Apr 23, 2009:
sorcerer... and apprentice I think the idea of 'alchemist' is very important: someone who is trying to take motley ingredients and create something from them (turn them into gold etc.) — I think this equates well with the idea of an artist/sculptor, but is rather different from the concept of 'sorcerer', which conjures up more of an image of magic, witchcraft,spells, etc.

As regards 'apprentice', I don't feel this is at all what is meant by 'enfant' — to me, the term suggest the naïveté of a child, in the sense that alchemists might very well try combinations of the most unlikely ingredients, somewhat at random, in just the way that a child might; the idea of an 'apprentice' as a junior learning the trade isn't really what it is all about here, IMHO
polyglot45 Apr 23, 2009:
like an apprentice alchemist, he plays and ... makes child's play of
Bourth (X) Apr 23, 2009:
sorceror's apprentice??? Is "alchimiste-enfant" an established concept in any language?
Emma Paulay Apr 23, 2009:
I like both FWIW, I think both are good solutions, whether you use "child's play" or not.
kashew (asker) Apr 23, 2009:
2 x play Maybe I should make it apprentice/infant-alchemist to avoid child twice in the phrase?

Proposed translations

+1
8 mins
Selected

play around with/play down

se jouer des difficultés = to make light of the difficulties

So you can use "play down" to keep the word play in English
Note from asker:
That's interesting too: "up & down" works nicely!
Peer comment(s):

agree tradu-grace : If you (Kashew) decide to maintain the "playing" upon words
4 days
Ta tradugrace!
Something went wrong...
3 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "After all the "playing" I found "to toy with"! Thanks to everyone for their interest and suggestions."
5 mins
French term (edited): jouer avec / se jouer de

play with / make seem like child's play

In this way, "play" is preserved in both verb phrases
Something went wrong...
+3
7 mins

play/make light of

confirmed according to Robert Collins...
Note from asker:
Interesting: "makes light of" has a second meaning for a sculpture, esp. in glass - so I'm not sure I want to play on on words!
Peer comment(s):

agree B D Finch : Yes, under "d) locutions"
43 mins
agree Nikki Scott-Despaigne : "make light of"
5 hrs
agree Harald Moelzer (medical-translator)
4 days
Something went wrong...
+3
8 mins

plays with/ mocks

/
Note from asker:
I like your suggestion "mocks" - Nice and snappy!
Peer comment(s):

agree emiledgar : Mocks is excellent for "se joue" in this case.
4 hrs
Thanks, Emile!
agree Najib Aloui
13 hrs
Thanks, Najib!
agree tradu-grace : In my view, this is the perfect translation of "se jouer" ... if you accept a good english rendering of the French expression and forget about the "compulsory"double use of the British "play"
4 days
Thank you!
Something went wrong...
+1
15 mins

play around with/get around

To keep a similar repetition as in the Fr.

Peer comment(s):

agree Anne-Marie Grant (X)
3 hrs
Thanks, Anne-Marie.
Something went wrong...
+1
1 hr

plays [with] // makes sport of / makes light work of

Like a child-alchemist, the artist plays with .... and makes sport of / sports with / makes light work of the difficulties
I do think it would be a shame to lose the child-alchemist - nothing else is as evocative.

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Note added at 1 hr (2009-04-23 09:30:10 GMT)
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I agree with Tony that sorcerer does not equate with alchemist and, as I have already said, the child element needs to be retained.
Peer comment(s):

agree Jim Tucker (X)
32 mins
Thanks, Jim
Something went wrong...
9 hrs

play/laugh off, laugh at

It's really difficult to find something in English that would use identical terms as the French does. Laughter seems to go with play, however. I thought of "have fun with" and "make fun of," but they seem a little cumbersome.
Note from asker:
Has fun with is excellent. You also triggered "scoff" as a potential synonym, thanks. Have a good day.
Something went wrong...
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