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Glossary entry

Italian term or phrase:

Gentili dottoresse

English translation:

Dear All

Added to glossary by Lisa Jane
Aug 23, 2017 12:04
6 yrs ago
3 viewers *
Italian term

Gentili dottoresse

Non-PRO Italian to English Bus/Financial General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters statuto sociale
It always strikes me how difficult it is to translate the apparently simpler everyday things from one language to another.

I have a letter addressed to two or more "dottoresse" who work in the pharmaceutical/legal field, whose names I do not know.
Any combination that does not involve using their names sounds stilted in English - Mesdames, Dear Madams, Dear Sir/Madam etc etc

Do we have an off-the-shelf formula we could use or is using their names the only way?
Proposed translations (English)
4 +3 Dear All
3 +1 Dear Fellow Professionals
3 Dear Madam
Change log

Aug 28, 2017 12:32: Lisa Jane Created KOG entry

Aug 31, 2017 23:47: Yvonne Gallagher changed "Level" from "PRO" to "Non-PRO"

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (3): TechLawDC, Lara Barnett, Yvonne Gallagher

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Discussion

Anthony Green (asker) Aug 24, 2017:
was this a PRO or non-PRO question? someone asked for this to be made a non-PRO question but judging from the amount of debate it is far from that! That's one of the fun things about translation as the apparently complex can be so simple, and the apparently simple so complex!
Anthony Green (asker) Aug 24, 2017:
reply from the agency il cliente ha risposto, vedi sotto:

in questo specifico caso si tratta di un documento interno (dalla filiale italiana a casa madre), quindi andrà benissimo X e Y.

"Much Ado About Nothing" but I very much enjoyed the conversation
Marco Solinas Aug 23, 2017:
Let us forget the "esse" for a moment I think it might be profitable to ask how we would translate "gentili dottori" rather than "gentili dottoresse": 1. if we knew the names of the "dottori", we would translate "Dear Mr. (or Dr. if we knew it was an MD) Pinco Pallino"; 2. if we did not know the name, we would translate "Dear Sir or Sirs", certainly not "Dear Dr. or Drs."
Anthony Green (asker) Aug 23, 2017:
risposta agenzia Ciao Anthony, scusa se rispondo solo ora.
Purtroppo non ho questa informazione e non so se sia possibile riceverla dal cliente in questo caso. Prova a rimanere il più generico possibile e se ti serve necessariamente per la traduzione, provo a chiedere.

Fammi sapere, Grazie mille per ora!
Anthony Green (asker) Aug 23, 2017:
Thanks everyone I wrote to the agency before I published this question and so I hope they will reply early tomorrow morning. I will let you know!
Fiona Grace Peterson Aug 23, 2017:
Contact the client I really think you need to find out the positions these "dottoresse" hold, and would try to find out from my customer. The following link gives some good advice on how to handle salutations in business correspondence.
http://www.instructionalsolutions.com/blog/bid/61952/busines...
Fiona Grace Peterson Aug 23, 2017:
I suppose a lot of it comes down to what we ourselves would be comfortable receiving. I see that "Dear All" is becoming more common for situations such as these, but I think I would be annoyed if someone sent me a letter with this opening formula. Given that these are professionals, and the point of business communication is to promote and safeguard a business relationship rather than jeopardise it, I would steer away from "Dear All". I think it's too informal, and the fact it's becoming more common doesn't necessarily mean that everyone has warmed to its use. Just my two cents, mind!
Lisa Jane Aug 23, 2017:
@Fiona 17:11 There is already one ref under my answer which says it's formal. I'm saying however that Dear All is neither too formal nor too informal which is what I think Gentili Dottoresse is.
Helen Pringle Aug 23, 2017:
Mesdames I would go for the French "Mesdames", which is often used in such cases.
Lisa Jane Aug 23, 2017:
@Fiona Tricky indeed so the translator should play it safe. I was thinking about Dear Sir/Madam and I remember being taught to use this regardless of the gender of the recipients and it could work as an alternative plural form of address.
Lisa Jane Aug 23, 2017:
I agree To Whom it May Concern is inappropriate (and much to formal IMO) if they are specific people and have already had a telephone conversation
Fiona Grace Peterson Aug 23, 2017:
Tricky situation This question is tricky, because anyone who has a degree in Italy can call themselves a "dottore". You can't call someone in the legal field a "doctor" in an English text, yet if you call a medical doctor "madam" you risk offending them. All of which is compounded by the fact there is no formula in English for opening a letter to someone unless you know their name and/or position. Tricky indeed!
Lisa Jane Aug 23, 2017:
As they have already been speaking on the phone and in view of what the letter actually says, I'd say Gentili Dottoresse is half-way between formal (for a brand new or potential client) and informal (already a client and indeed the consultant is already providing a service and writes with a polite but rather informal tone-in fact he does not list their surnames or Ms/Mrs.)
polyglot45 Aug 23, 2017:
Italians call everybody in a position of authority "dottore". When I was head of department in a big company, I was forever being addressed with the title by my Italian colleagues
Anthony Green (asker) Aug 23, 2017:
who's writing It's the Italian consultant to a firm which makes Medical Devices
philgoddard Aug 23, 2017:
Brigitte asked who is writing, and I think that's a valid question. "Dear all" would work if the context is informal.
Anthony Green (asker) Aug 23, 2017:
They have been talking on the phone What fun. Well, I'm glad it's sparked a little debate!
I should have pointed out that this is a letter to a couple of specific people, so I don't feel I can use "To whom it may concern".
I do like "Dear colleagues" although that too contains so much implicit information which may or may not be appropriate!
The letter begins "a seguito della nostra telefonata di questa mattina sono riuscito a mettermi in contatto con XXXX e a ricevere i seguenti chiarimenti:"
Fiona Grace Peterson Aug 23, 2017:
Doctor @Patrick:
The meaning of "doctor" in English is much more specific than in Italian: in English a doctor has a medical degree or doctorate, so would not be suitable for someone working in the legal field who does not have these qualifications.
@Brigitte:
I like "Dear colleagues"!
BrigitteHilgner Aug 23, 2017:
Who is writing? i.e. could you get away with:
Dear colleagues
Dear clients
Dear valued customers
Dear scientists (probably not, because of the "legal field")
Patrick Hopkins Aug 23, 2017:
I think "Dear Doctors" in this case is a real possibility, since the original is so specific.

Proposed translations

+3
30 mins
Selected

Dear All

in the absence of names and further context (about the relationship between writer and the addressed) and to keep it generic and formal enough (but not too formal) I'd go for this

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 37 mins (2017-08-23 12:41:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

obviously the type of business relations between the parties, the target and the subject matter of the letter is key when choosing an appropriate salutation

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2017-08-23 14:48:58 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------


http://speakspeak.com/letter-writing-articles/how-to-start-a...

When addressing more than one person:
[salutation] [sign-off]
Gentlemen
formal (to several male colleagues) Regards
Dear All
formal (to several colleagues) Regards
Peer comment(s):
agree BrigitteHilgner
31 mins
Thanks Brigitte:)
neutral writeaway : too informal. too colloquial /I've seen it used for in-house, in-company correspondence but not to a potential client/customer. Who's writing: It's the Italian consultant to a firm which makes Medical Devices. So I think Dear All is really wrong
2 hrs
I disagree and would class Gentili dottoresse as being between formal and informal in Italian and Dear All can be both which is why I chose it. It is a generic, polite and respectful salutation which the translator may use safely without offending anyone.
agree philgoddard : We still don't know the full context (and it's not for lack of trying), but this is fine if the letter is reasonably informal.
2 hrs
Yes I think it's a case of play it safe here-not everything is 100% perfectly translatable as we know all too well on this network!.
agree Helen Pringle : I agree with your comment above
2 hrs
Thanks Helen:)
agree Peter Cox
3 hrs
Thanks Peter!
disagree Fiona Grace Peterson : I still feel this is too informal for this type of correspondence.
3 hrs
Gentili Dottoresse without the names following is rather informal or 'friendly' in Italian. Consultants for the very nature of the job they do would not use anything too formal or old fashioned.
neutral Rachel Fell : I consider this too informal and casual sounding
5 hrs
As I explained it is an imperfect compromise otherwise I'd use Dear Sir/Madam if not using names.
neutral Lara Barnett : Possibly could be used, but risks being a little casual, so would depend on the relationship of the two parties.
22 hrs
Hi Lara, yes I know, it now turns out from the context it could be fine:)
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "many thanks to all who took part in this most interesting debate"
45 mins

Dear Madam

I presume that the letter is being sent to each individual "dottoressa" and that she will read the individual letter sent to her. In my opinion, the plural form is not essential in this case.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Fiona Grace Peterson : But if they are a medical doctor you risk offending them by not addressing them as "Doctor".
2 hrs
Something went wrong...
+1
6 hrs

Dear Fellow Professionals

suggestion

Note from asker:
Yes, it's nice and apparently a common form in India
Peer comment(s):
agree Lara Barnett : I like this as it shows respect and is a refreshing opening to a letter.
16 hrs
Thank you Lara :-)
Something went wrong...
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