This site uses cookies. Some of these cookies are essential to the operation of the site, while others help to improve your experience by providing insights into how the site is being used. For more information, please see the ProZ.com privacy policy.
Cookie settings
l’instance de pré-production
pyélonéphrite á pyo
May 4, 2015 13:32
9 yrs ago
French term

enfoncer la tête sous l'eau

French to English Art/Literary General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters Cinéma: documentaire
"Regarde ce qu'ils font pour nous.
Qu'est ce qu'ils font pour nous ?
Ils ne font que nous enfoncer la tête sous l'eau . On ne nous aide pas. Ils prennent des décisions qui nous font du tort à nous."

Témoignage d'un mineur qui parle du gouvernement dans un documentaire.

Je me demande s'il y a une expression pour traduire cette image?

Merci beaucoup pour votre aide.
Proposed translations (English)
3 +6 they're kicking us when we're (already) down
3 +3 they're pushing us under
4 +1 they are letting us drown
4 +1 holding our heads under water
4 To scuttle/sabotage our plans
3 +1 They are Throwing us under the bus

Discussion

Sarah Blard (asker) May 5, 2015:
To all Thank you all for your help!
Nikki Scott-Despaigne May 4, 2015:
There are a number of idiomatic expressions to convey the idea that someone who is already in a difficult position is being further compromised. There is the notion of deliberate action on the part of the perpetrators and that the miners are powerless to prevent it. It implies visciousness.

As you say, "let someone down" suggests disappointment and you are right to consider this is much more. There is victimization, bullying. ;-)
Sarah Blard (asker) May 4, 2015:
a Nikki I am translating this professionally. I can imagine there are many possible solutions. I was thinking of something like ' they let us down' but I know it is not the same and so that's why I am asking help. I would like to know if there is a similar metaphor in English to express 'enfoncer la tête sous l'eau'.
Nikki Scott-Despaigne May 4, 2015:
@Sarah Are you translating this professionally or as a homework piece? There are a large number of possible solutions here. What expressions have you considered thus far?

Proposed translations

+6
49 mins
Selected

they're kicking us when we're (already) down

the French conveys a sens of a bad situation made even worse
Peer comment(s):
agree Nikki Scott-Despaigne : Indeed. This would have been my first choice.
22 mins
agree Wendy Streitparth : Yes, this definitely conveys the meaning.
1 hr
agree Michele Fauble
2 hrs
agree Jean-Louis S.
3 hrs
agree writeaway
7 hrs
agree Susan Monnereau
15 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you very much, I think your suggestion conveys very well the meaning in this context. "
+1
10 mins

they are letting us drown

The image is one of someone seeing someone drown but not rescuing her/him
Peer comment(s):
agree Barbara Cochran, MFA
9 mins
neutral Tony M : I think 'enfoncer' actually makes this much more active than simply 'letting us' drown
37 mins
neutral Nikki Scott-Despaigne : This would be better for the "On ne nous aide pas" as it describes failure to assist. The notion of "enfoncer" describe an active contribution to worsening of an already bad situation.
1 hr
Something went wrong...
16 mins

To scuttle/sabotage our plans

my take

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 30 mins (2015-05-04 14:02:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Erratum: our LIVELIHOOD instead of plans
Peer comment(s):
neutral Tony M : I don't think either of the verbs you suggest works really well with 'livelihood', and to some extent, this changes the metaphor quite a bit.
32 mins
Something went wrong...
+1
1 hr

They are Throwing us under the bus

suggestion
or sweeping us under the carpet

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/sweep under the carpet
Example sentence:

Definition: “To throw someone under the bus” is defined as meaning “to sacrifice; to treat as a scapegoat; to betray,” but . . . the key to the phrase really lies in the element of utter betrayal, the sudden, brutal sacrifice of a stalwart and loy

Reference:

http://www.advanceconsulting.com/blog/conflict-management-dont-throw-people-under-the-bus-2/

Peer comment(s):
neutral Nikki Scott-Despaigne : I like this for the "sacrificial" image but I think it is slightly less efficient in rendering the idea of the rotten pre-existing situation being made worse.
14 mins
agree Jean-Claude Gouin : That's what all governments do!
2 hrs
:) Thank you 1045 !
Something went wrong...
+3
26 mins

they're pushing us under

It's actually a lote more active than simply "leaving someone to drown" — this is actively making it happening by pushing someone's head under water — you know the expression "just managing to keep my head above water"?

I'm not aware of an exact equivalent idiom in EN, but I think this would convey the same idea quite graphically to an EN reader.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 heures (2015-05-04 15:40:26 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

In fact, as the full expression is « Ils ne font que nous enfoncer la tête sous l'eau. », I'd be inclined to say "All they're doing is to push us under."

I think the drowning image is quite a powerful one in this context, and I would be loth to depart from it without good reason.
Peer comment(s):
agree Colin Morley (X) : Yes. I think you have nailed the right expression here, Tony.
2 mins
Thanks, Colin!
agree Victoria Britten
25 mins
Thanks, Victoria!
agree EirTranslations
1 hr
¡Gracias Béa!
Something went wrong...
+1
2 hrs

holding our heads under water

Why not stick to a fairly direct translation when the expression is quite commonly used in English?

articles.latimes.com/2007/mar/04/opinion/op-chait4
" ... Workers, who said: "Faced with a never-ending onslaught, we employees feel that the UAW is holding our heads under water until we drown."

thestandard.org.nz/nrt-climate-change-war-disease-and-famine/18 Mar 2014 - ... realises that the scum holding our heads under water can be beaten ...... in criminal law, and due process that is adhered to in Employment…

https://conservativesonfire.wordpress.com/.../the-middle-of-... Nov "The majority of Americans doesn't think they need government help. ... seeing that all of this government help is holding our heads under water."

davidwcampbell.com/?p=161919 Dec 2007 - Call it a federal government induced version of economic development ... with the guys that are (effectively) holding our heads under water.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2015-05-04 16:09:55 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

This expression also evokes a type of torture known to have been used by certain state agencies for punishment and when questioning suspects.
Peer comment(s):
agree Jean-Claude Gouin : Not only holding our heads under water BUT pushing our heads under water ...
1 hr
Thanks. Good point.
Something went wrong...
Close search
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search