This site uses cookies. Some of these cookies are essential to the operation of the site, while others help to improve your experience by providing insights into how the site is being used. For more information, please see the ProZ.com privacy policy.
Cookie settings
kakaoig
aufeinander aufbauendes Seminar­konzept
Jan 21, 2013 16:55
11 yrs ago
2 viewers *
German term

Die ausländischen Tochterunternehmen werden gehalten

Non-PRO German to English Bus/Financial Accounting
Hi:

I'm having some trouble with the meaning of "Die ausländischen Tochterunternehmen werden gehalten" in connection with the rest of the sentence:

"Die ausländischen Tochterunternehmen werden gehalten, die in der Bilanzierungsrichtlinie zugrundegelegten Ansatz- und Bewertungskriterien, soweit es die nationalen Gesetze erlauben, bereits im landesrechtlichen Abschluss umzusetzen"

What do you think 'werden gehalten' mean in this context?

Can anyone help me?

Thank you.

Eugenia
Proposed translations (English)
4 +2 The foreign subsidiaries are required
4 +2 werden angewiesen
3 +2 The foreign/overseas subsidiaries are being/have been instructed/advised to ...
3 held to, supposed to
4 -2 The foreign subsidiaries are encouraged
References
gehalten
Change log

Jan 21, 2013 17:00: NGK changed "Language pair" from "German" to "German to English"

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

PRO (2): Cilian O'Tuama, NGK

When entering new questions, KudoZ askers are given an opportunity* to classify the difficulty of their questions as 'easy' or 'pro'. If you feel a question marked 'easy' should actually be marked 'pro', and if you have earned more than 20 KudoZ points, you can click the "Vote PRO" button to recommend that change.

How to tell the difference between "easy" and "pro" questions:

An easy question is one that any bilingual person would be able to answer correctly. (Or in the case of monolingual questions, an easy question is one that any native speaker of the language would be able to answer correctly.)

A pro question is anything else... in other words, any question that requires knowledge or skills that are specialized (even slightly).

Another way to think of the difficulty levels is this: an easy question is one that deals with everyday conversation. A pro question is anything else.

When deciding between easy and pro, err on the side of pro. Most questions will be pro.

* Note: non-member askers are not given the option of entering 'pro' questions; the only way for their questions to be classified as 'pro' is for a ProZ.com member or members to re-classify it.

Discussion

Johannes Gleim Jan 24, 2013:
It is correct that the sentence means the subsidiaries have to comply with certain criteria", but the question was how to express this, politely or not. In German "to comply" means "sich nach etwas richten, sich fügen". "Required ("fordern, verlangen”) sounds to me like an (impolite) order. "Gehalten sein" is more conciliatory, expressing the same in principle. And that’s why a more conciliatory expression is required. All proposals express this requirement, but more or less harsh.

By the way, I showed this qestion to another German engineer, who responded that this expectation (to comply) "nicht wie eine Forderung ausgedrückt werden darf".
Johannes Gleim Jan 22, 2013:
Another point: Nobody else assumed the task to look for appropriate (bilingual) references or at least for unilingual references, even such references do not prove much. Contrary to this I cited reliable bilingual references including one from the translation service of the European Commission (who translates directives into all languages of member states). I cannot figure out why peers can venture to ignore such references by giving the impression knowing it better.

Again, dear colleagues: Please consider the exact meaning of the German term and than propose a corresponding English term!
Johannes Gleim Jan 22, 2013:
I am very astonished that apparently nobody else did wonder about the sense of this term used in a very rare way and proposed terms not in line with the (unknown) meaning. This is true especially for English native peers, who took the main route by proposing to strong terms.

I’m quite sure that the asker felt the different meaning, but found no equivalent expression in its own dictionaries and available sources before posting the question.

That’s why I have to repeat: “dazu anhalten, etwas zu tun” has the following signification according to the Duden: “anleiten, anweisen, bringen, erziehen, lehren; (gehoben) auf den rechten/richtigen Weg bringen” (to guide, to allot, to approximate sth., to educate, to teach, to foster, to facilitate).

followed ..
Johannes Gleim Jan 21, 2013:
Was bedeutet das laut Duden? an­hal­ten
Bedeutungen
:
2.[durch wiederholte Hinweise] zu etwas anleiten, erziehen
:
Synonyme zu anhalten
:
•anleiten, anweisen, bringen, erziehen, lehren; (gehoben) auf den rechten/richtigen Weg bringen; (österreichische Amtssprache, schweizerische Amtssprache) verhalten
http://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/anhalten

Demnach sind alle Übersetzungen in Richtung "fordern" (to require) "vorschreiben" (to direct) oder gar gerichtlich anordnen (to enjoin) falsch.
Edith Kelly Jan 21, 2013:
Great was originally a German to German question when I posted my answer, and then changed to German to English ... why did I bother to answer and explain .....
Steffen Walter Jan 21, 2013:
werden gehalten - sind gehalten In this context, "sind gehalten" is more frequently used than "werden gehalten"; "... are required/requested/instructed to..." are suitable translations.

Proposed translations

+2
7 mins
Selected

The foreign subsidiaries are required

*
Peer comment(s):
agree Carmen Lawrence
6 mins
agree Apurva Barve
59 mins
disagree Johannes Gleim : I'm afraid to disagree. Please consider the definition of Duden (se Discussion). "to require, to enjoin, to oblige" does not fit into the context as "anhalten, zu" is a strong desire, not an order.
7 hrs
agree Kim Metzger : anhalten - to enjoin, gehalten - required, obliged (Hamblock/Wessels)
9 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "After questioning the client on this doubt, his answer was "The sentence means that the subsidiaries have to comply with certain criteria", which is similar to "are rquired to". Thank you all for the help."
+2
7 mins

The foreign/overseas subsidiaries are being/have been instructed/advised to ...

That's how I would translate it.
Peer comment(s):
agree Michael Martin, MA : That should work!
9 mins
Cheers m8!
agree Johanna Timm, PhD
2 hrs
Peace
neutral Johannes Gleim : "advised" geht gerade noch, "instructed" ist aber schon an der Grenzen zum Befehlen. Vgl. Diskussion (Duden).
6 hrs
Ich glaube in dem fraglichen Satz ist ein gewisses Mass an Befehl enthalten.
Something went wrong...
12 mins

held to, supposed to

Literally, the foreign subsidiaries are 'held' to do this; they are obliged to apply the specified criteria.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 mins (2013-01-21 17:09:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

To word it simply one might say 'the foreign subsidiaries must'.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Johannes Gleim : Dies ist keine Forderung, sondern ein inniger Wunsch. Vgl. Diskussion (Duden). "held to, supposed to" geht etwas in diese Richtung, aber "must" ist völlig fehl am Platze.
7 hrs
Something went wrong...
+2
4 mins

werden angewiesen

oder kürzer; man sagt ihnen, dass sie das machen sollen. es erfolgt die Anweisung, dass sie das tun müssen.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 mins (2013-01-21 17:15:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Great stuff ...... when I posted my answer, it was still a German to German question ..... then changed to German to English ....

yep.. they are instructed, not required
Peer comment(s):
agree Johanna Timm, PhD : aber die Erklärung hilft sicher auch!
2 hrs
agree writeaway
6 hrs
neutral Johannes Gleim : "required" ist falsch, "instructed" ist ein Grenzfall. Siehe Diskussion zur Bedeutung von "anhalten" (Duden). // Das ist nicht persönlich gemeint, aber hier werden m.E. zwei harte Ausdrücke vorgeschlagen. Albert ist mit "advised" konzilanter.
6 hrs
etwas gegen mich, dass nur ich ein disagree bekomme, wenn "alle" falsch sind?
Something went wrong...
-2
6 hrs

The foreign subsidiaries are encouraged


vom Gesetzgeber angehalten
required by law

angehalten sein, etw. zu tun
to be required to do sth.

angehalten sein, etw. zu tun
to be obliged to do sth.
http://de.bab.la/woerterbuch/deutsch-englisch/angehalten

Anmerkung : Nicht ganz einverstanden, weil « required » oder « obliged » eine Forderung oder Verpflichtung beinhaltet, während « zu etwas anhalten » ein dringender Rat ist.

Consumers should be encouraged to raise any complaints they may have with the relevant organization before proceeding to independent recourse mechanisms.
Die Verbraucher sollen dazu angehalten werden, Beschwerden zunächst an die Organisation zu richten, die ihre Daten verarbeitet, ehe sie eine unabhängige Beschwerdestelle anrufen.
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/Notice.do?mode=dbl&lang=en&ihmlang=...

Die ausländischen Tochterunternehmen werden gehalten (zu ..)
=>
The foreign subsidiaries are encouraged (to ...)

Peer comment(s):
disagree Kim Metzger : Hamblock/Wessels - anhalten: to enjoin http://dict.tu-chemnitz.de/dings.cgi?lang=en&service=deen&op... /That's why "required", "obliged" is better. /The term under consideration is "gehalten sein"
3 hrs
Sorry, you are wrong. "enjoin" is a legal term, not applicable here (similar to "required", but stronger). "Anhalten" has a different, very weak, more admonishing sense in the context (said in a roundabout way).
disagree Cilian O'Tuama : I've a feeling you're wrong and that "encourage" is too weak. It's closer to anregen o ermutigen than to anhalten. // Understanding the German is only HALF the job! We looky for an Engl. equivalent. Your suggestions are not working, at least not for me.
1 day 17 hrs
As Geman native I am quite sure to understand what "(an)gehalten" means. // Misunderstood terms can not be translated correctly. Please let the asker judge!
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

19 hrs
Reference:

gehalten

Duden Universal-Wörterbuch - zu etwas gehalten sein: (ein bestimmtes Verhalten) auferlegt bekommen, dazu verpflichtet sein; wir sind gehalten Stillschweigen zu bewahren
Wahrig - gehalten sein: verpflichtet sein, ich erwarte von Ihnen, dass ...
Hamblock/Wessels, Großwörterbuch Wirtschaftsenglisch - gehalten: obliged, required; gehalten etwas zu tun: to be bound/required to do sth.
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree Steffen Walter
6 hrs
disagree Johannes Gleim : Does not match the Duden Online definition (see discussion). Please note that German natives like me have a better feeling for the real sense than others.
6 hrs
German natives, like Steffen?
agree Cilian O'Tuama : Mr Gleim's comment above is distasteful, disrespectful, disotherful, ...
1 day 10 hrs
I thought we weren't allowed to use the N-word.
Something went wrong...
Close search
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search