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Argentine/Argentinean/Argentinian

English translation: Argentine

20:49 Jul 15, 2011
English language (monolingual) [PRO]
General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
English term or phrase: Argentine/Argentinean/Argentinian
This is too 'close to home' for me to be certain (if anyone is), I have a preference for 'Argentine', probably dated, but I'm not sure what to use in the article I'm translating.

To put you in the picture, the author is an Israeli academic, who writes in Spanish (and Hebrew of course), and it will be published in English by Dutch publishers. Such is the world nowadays. I've been checking dictionaries and internet pages, but can't find anything definitive.

So my question is addressed principally to colleagues living (or born)in Europe, as I'm translating into UK English. Would it be acceptable to alternate 'Argentine' and 'Argentinean'? Sometimes one or the other sounds better to me, but to be frank I have no idea why!

Many thanks in advance, CW
Christine Walsh
Local time: 05:05
Selected answer:Argentine
Explanation:
Many Argentines - certainly I can't say everyone, but certainly I feel this way and I would say most in my family and friendship circles - in the English-speaking world have a powerful aversion to the other two versions. If I can express why, I would say the other two sound very much like diminutives and so have a minimizing or patronizing connotation.
So, for that reason, as well as on a principle of economy (brevity), I much prefer the first.
It's also the closest, morphologically, to the Spanish version (argentino/argentina).

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 mins (2011-07-15 21:00:06 GMT)
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I should add that, in answer to the other part of your question, there is no generally agreed-upon standard about this.
Selected response from:

Pablo Julián Davis
Local time: 03:05
Grading comment
Thanks, Pablo. I very happily plumped for this one, which is the one I 've always used, but with slight misgivings over the last few years
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



SUMMARY OF ALL EXPLANATIONS PROVIDED
4 +11Argentine
Pablo Julián Davis
3 +1Anything but Argentinean for UK
Marian Vieyra
Summary of reference entries provided
Refs.
Taña Dalglish

Discussion entries: 6





  

Answers


9 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +11
Argentine


Explanation:
Many Argentines - certainly I can't say everyone, but certainly I feel this way and I would say most in my family and friendship circles - in the English-speaking world have a powerful aversion to the other two versions. If I can express why, I would say the other two sound very much like diminutives and so have a minimizing or patronizing connotation.
So, for that reason, as well as on a principle of economy (brevity), I much prefer the first.
It's also the closest, morphologically, to the Spanish version (argentino/argentina).

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 mins (2011-07-15 21:00:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I should add that, in answer to the other part of your question, there is no generally agreed-upon standard about this.

Pablo Julián Davis
Local time: 03:05
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Thanks, Pablo. I very happily plumped for this one, which is the one I 've always used, but with slight misgivings over the last few years

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Jenni Lukac (X): The Embassy of Argentina in London uses this spelling.
6 mins
agree  Robert Forstag
24 mins
agree  Jennifer Levey: I recall that 25 years ago the BBC referred systematically in its war coverage to 'the Argentinian' people/navy/etc., but the 'Argentine Republic'; recent BBC website content uses "Argentine" (fairly) consistently.
26 mins
  -> Thanks, mediamatrix.
agree  Cecilia Rey: Argentina (adj and people Argentine, not Argentinian) http://www.economist.com/research/styleGuide/index.cfm?page=...
27 mins
  -> Gracias Cecilia!
agree  Edward Tully: no doubt!
1 hr
  -> Thanks Edward!
agree  benettfreeman
2 hrs
agree  Phong Le
3 hrs
agree  Muriel Vasconcellos: But 'Argentina' is preferred for abstract concepts such as 'the Argentina economy' - though 'Argentine economy' is easier to pronounce and therefore might prevail.
3 hrs
agree  Sharon Toh, MITI MCIL
4 hrs
agree  David Hollywood: born and bred in Ireland and many years in Argentina and it is "Argentine" for me as an adjective :) and any Anglo-Argentine lol will confirm this (nobody in Argentina says "Argentinian" .. it's "Argentine")
5 hrs
  -> Good on ya, de acuerdo David!
agree  Thayenga: Undoubtedly Argentine. :)
11 hrs
  -> Gracias, Thayenga!
disagree  fionn: I'm only disagreeing to break the consensus, as I'm pretty sure there isn't one. Both are used. My ex hated being called 'Argentine'! My own experience is that Argentine is US, Argentinian UK. I've never heard the complaint it sounds like a diminutive.
11 hrs
agree  JFernandezCalvo: Argentine is undoubtedly the official government usage for over 200 years! A lot of the use of "Argentinian" is ideological, many progressives feel its a way of distancing themselves from the old Argentine oligarchy!
1764 days
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13 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
argentine/argentinean/argentinian
Anything but Argentinean for UK


Explanation:
London newspaper styleguides have the following to say:
"Argentine is the adjective; an Argentinian is a person from Argentina (never the Argentine)" - The Times

"Argentina: Argentine for the citizen and the adjective, not Argentinian" - The Telegraph

"Argentinian
noun and adjective" - The Guardian

Personally, I'd eat an Argentine steak after dancing an Argentine tango with a handsome Argentinian! (Chance would be a fine thing!)


    Reference: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/tools_and_services/specials...
    Reference: http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Guardian/documents/200...
Marian Vieyra
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:05
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks a lot, Marian. The styleguides were particularly useful. Come and see us if you decide to help CHANCE along! ;-P


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Rachel Fell: agree ;-)
2 hrs
  -> Thanks, Rachel
agree  B D Finch
1 day 3 mins
  -> Thanks, B D
disagree  JFernandezCalvo: Argentine is undoubtedly the official government usage for over 200 years! A lot of the use of "Argentinian" is ideological, many progressives feel its a way of distancing themselves from the old Argentine oligarchy!
1764 days
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Reference comments


15 mins
Reference: Refs.

Reference information:
A very debatable topic; nevertheless, a few links, the last being of particular interest, assuming it is British English.

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=8674
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_(disambiguation)

http://www.therealargentina.com/argentinian-wine-blog/argent...
Let’s establish exactly what we are trying to say. There are three uses for the words Argentinian, Argentinean and Argentine:
Demonym – a type of noun to describe someone from Argentina. An Argentine, an Argentinian, an Argentinean. This is the demonym or gentilic. For example: some one from Lichtenstein is a Lichtensteiner, some one from Luxemburg is a Luxemburger and some one from Malta is a… (ho ho)
Adjective – the second use is an adjective – of, or pertaining to, Argentina. For example, an Argentine steak, an Argentinian football player or an Argentinean book
Noun – this we can happily ignore. The only noun using the word Argentine (and not Argentinian or Argentinean) is “any various small silver-scaled salmon like marine fish”

So where does that leave us (apart from a little confused)? Well let’s turn to the Oxford English Dictionary for our definitive answer. ***Argentine is listed as the correct demonym: she is an Argentine. And Argentinian the correct British adjectival form. ***

And I’m happy to take that as read. As are the Guardian (although its far from consistent) and Time Out – or at least when I edited it.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2011-07-15 21:53:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

There still appears to be a lack of consensus (based on Mariana's comment in the discussion box). However, I would add this:

Argentina: properly República Argentina (Argentine Republic) or Tierra Argentina (Land of Silver), from Latin argentum (silver). In English, the Spanish form Argentina is used for the country, the parallel English form Argentine as demonym and general adjective. The adjectival forms of Argentinean or Argentinian are used in the United Kingdom; ***however, the Oxford English Dictionary lists Argentine as the correct demonym.[5] (Argentinian is a demonym for the Argentine, an archaic name for Argentina, and hence a less direct derivation.) ***

5 ^ a b "Oxford English Dictionary". Oxford University Press.

Taña Dalglish
Jamaica
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 16
Note to reference poster
Asker: Thanks, Taña. There's some comfort in knowing that I'm not the only one (though as a Brit in Argentina I feel I SHOULD know) :-)

Asker: Taña, once again, thanks a lot. As you have all said, there's no real consensus, but this discussion has helped me to decide what I want to use, and I'll stick to it. Cheers


Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  Pablo Julián Davis: Yes, agreed. Very thorough! Thanks.
17 mins
  -> Thank you Pablo.
disagree  JFernandezCalvo: The official Argentine government usage has remained unchanged for 200 years. Its always Argentine, maybe we should respect that choice?
1764 days
  -> Frankly, I don't understand your disagreement, particularly when I clearly stated "debatable" and I offer no answer. This is a reference comment only and was in no way intendeded as a definitive answer.
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