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брак был основан на искренних чувствах
отказывали в направлении
Mar 21, 2010 21:30
14 yrs ago
1 viewer *
Russian term

решать по Ленинскому

Russian to English Other Other
This is the headline of an article I've translated. It's only the headline I don't understand. It's about the choice Medvedev has to make -- to prosecute a number of "useful oligarchs" over their part in a road accident that killed two innocent women, or to allow public anger to continue to rise over the incident. I don't understand what "Leninskiy" is here (the Moscow district?).

Article is here: http://www.grani.ru/opinion/milshtein/m.175778.html
Proposed translations (English)
3 +6 fast track justice, 'fast lane' justice
3 +3 A Decision a la Lenin
4 +1 Solve the matter like Lenin would have
3 +2 A Prospective Leninist Decision
4 +1 deciding law on "that Leninsky thing"
3 +1 Medvedev's decision on Lenin Avenue (prospekt) accident
3 to make a Lenin-style decision
3 title... or WHO TO DECIDE?

Discussion

Alex Marshall Mar 26, 2010:
Get a room, you two ;) You may as well save your breath. I'm not returning to this discussion again, one reason being that your use of pronouns and your peculiar version of English make me wince.
Alexandra Taggart Mar 26, 2010:
Don't you worry, Victor- no conflict! Alex is a Soviet baby, most likely ( Soviet troll - as an antagonist to post-Soviet), and he knows everything about politics a bit better than you (he is крепок).I cannot be too jealous of you Victor, on contrary- I would like to propose Judith a feminine cooperation,we will manage by deciding which part of you goes to whom.Then, just in case, I should apologise to Rachel(I'm sorry if anything), her answer is a real pitch. The ghost of Lenin would jolt us emotionally until his body is really buried, I beg for your understanding Clive.
Victor Zagria Mar 26, 2010:
2 нон-нейтивз: на тот случай, если возникли трудности с пониманием 'to give law to' чьим-либо проступкам или к-л ситуациям, подсказываю: сие изречение означает "брать закон в свои руки, подменять собою court of justice"... Это то, что бывало во времена пра-пра-пра дедов Алекса и Рейчел, когда первые - по своему сугубо разумению (без суда и следствия) - slashed the neibourghood characters and hanged cattle-rustlers. Так, .. невзначай.
Victor Zagria Mar 26, 2010:
Alex, in fact, I do appreciate the belle-lettre value of the option you have suggested, it HAS demonstrated your taste for writing and profound linguistic background of yours, sir. The idea i was going to impart on the discussion here is simple: the metonimy is wrong, the whole expression yuo suggested DOES NOT fully reflect the political implication so bitterly expressed in the Russian original... Nevertheless, I am really sorry for raining at your parade. I am..
As to your remark on my 'relationship' with some ladies (thats hinting that I am poss. not (!) any good for that .. :) here's some citation for you from my recent favourites: "--Shit, man! If I want to listen to Larry King, I'll swicth the f-king TV on!" ("Michael Clayton", scene 1). Будь крепок, Alex.
Alexandra Taggart Mar 25, 2010:
Dear Alex, let me tell you, that I dislike corruption in any form it may occur in this beautiful life. I've noticed many times when poor answers came out to be the winning ones due to the gang controlling the outcome.Well, well...Supplying proofreaders with work - is that is the idea?I didn't call "really bad" names anybody, I just stated well known facts: not you personally, but couple of other guys.However, you put me disagree without much understanding as well, like someone who doesn't know the subject. I know what you are playing at - making things personal, when I appeal to others to ignore anything personal and stick to linguistics.Do you go to your doctor because you like him personally, or-because he is a good professional? Would you pay money to someone,who doesn't do his job properly?
Alex Marshall Mar 24, 2010:
To Alexandra In all honesty, I expected no less from you. Such bitter verbal abuse coming from a lady. So sad... Mind you, I did not use a single swear word all this time (you call it 'toothless', I'd say 'polite'). I just stated a fact: 60 successful answers out of 1,200 and counting. Nonetheless you behave as if you owned the place... And to call Proz.com unprofessional. That's rich coming from you... I beg to disagree... Also, I'm dying to know how one could 'abuse you in a civilized way'. Sounds kinky.
Alexandra Taggart Mar 24, 2010:
Alex I don't think your your foil is sharp enough against me.You cannot even abuse me in civilized way - absolutely toothless remarks (reminds me "THE" - откровенное хамло).I beg Victor to stop shaking red cloth at the nose of those, who were abused themselves at some time,that's why they transpose their own experience on others.I don't particularly like Rachel, but I put my "agree",because I like her answer, I put professionalism before this "gangshit" which makes ProZ unprofessional !!!
Alex Marshall Mar 23, 2010:
To Victor Oh, pardon me, Victor. I did not know you had a relationship with Judith. It's just that you don't sound like her type of guy. I'm just saying...
Victor Zagria Mar 22, 2010:
@Rachel Douglas А все просто, Rachel, "решать по Ленинскому" в полноформатном варианте и на милицейском жаргоне расШИФРОВЫВАЕТСЯ "решать по делу на Ленинском проспекте". Поскольку звучит сие "решать" в статье со ссылкой на гипотетического "самого" + милицейские начальники, а не из уст судьи и присяжных - вот Вам и искомая игра слов, ассоциативный ряд которой детально изложен Вашим покорнейшим слугой в комментарии.
Off-record: весьма сожалею, что не удалось подключиться к дискуссии раньше, и новые обстоятельства разрушили логическую стройность предыдущих ответов. Уверяю Вас, это случилось без к-л намерений с моей стороны. С уважением, В. Загрия
Victor Zagria Mar 22, 2010:
Alex... many thanks for enlightening me on the 'basic stuff' so eloquently presented in the intro to your recent opus - for me knowledge & skills are the things I'm looking for in 1st place on these forums.
As to the 'real issue' you've so desperately tried to impart on me:
1 to my deepest regrette I can't discuss this most 'real' issue of yours with you in person.
2 just be rational: it's much more practical to discuss things in merry 'troll-like' mood than to p-ss 'the whole thing' off addressing to it like the pain-in-the-neck hater... Just to set 'feelings' part straight.
3 Your mentioning Alexandra Taggart's name (the tone and attitude) and my relationship with Judith - does not in the least associate your behaviour with gentleman-like one.
4 I've known both of the ladies in quite a while as well as sincerely tried to help THEM and THE REST of the colleagues that are tuned to this discussion at the moment.
5 Truth is a hard matter and let's leave it to the ASKER to have everybody's lepta weighed.
Off-record: в свое время я пожил в Москве, Alex, всяко было. Знаю тамошних людей и нравы. Думаю, мое участие здесь - к месту. Советую впредь разбирать людей.
Alex Marshall Mar 22, 2010:
To Victor, free advice for the knowledgeable Victor, I'm not in the least bit aggressive.

For starters, let me give you a free lesson in English 101:
problem in issue > problem AT issue
be of some help for Mr. > be of some help TO Mr.
with respect to your feelings > with respect FOR your feelings

This is just basic stuff I cared to point out. Just to set the ‘knowledgeable’ part straight.
Now to the real issue. You have trashed every more or less reasonable suggestion made here and barged in with your 'thing', which makes no sense, by the way.
For the record, I wasn't calling you or you-know-who any names. I think your behavior is troll-like, and you acknowledged this 'merrily', I must add. In this you are very similar to Madame Taggart, who has an impressive record of 60 successful answers out of 1,200, but still tries to throw some weight around in a manner that is far from pleasant.
So I suggest you take it down a notch and speak up only when you are certain to the point of having the answer tattooed on your cheek.
Also, telling a person you never met to have some rest because, in the opinion of some wannabe know-it-all, ‘she looked tired’ is unbecoming of a gentleman.

So long.
Victor Zagria Mar 22, 2010:
@Mr Marshall Dear Alex, as much as I have so far observed each & every one of the participants in the discussion has been trying to shine some organized light on the linguistic problem in issue so as to be of some help for Mr Wilshin... None of us has splashed any negativity into the air up to the moment you, sir, have started calling Alexandra Taggard and me names. With true respect to your feelings, I dare say you aren't in the least knowledegable in the extra-linguistic setting of the qestion in issue. Probably that's the reason of your emotionally abusive behavior. The above lack of knowledge is by no means the excuse for your being aggerssive. Yours trolling merrily, Victor Zagria
Victor Zagria Mar 22, 2010:
"Правильным путем идете, товарищи!.." "Leninsky" is the way muskovites normally call the Leninsky prospect (avenue) as much as 'leninsky' (adj) in Russian means 'pertaining to Lenin, behaving leninessque'...
Due to the author, the outcome of the case is supposed to be another- in- the- row 'leninsky thing' (when law is traded off for the needs of current politics) ...
"решать" ("решать вопрос") has always - since Lenin's times - bore a meaning of 'ruling some current matter out' on the grounds of political necessity rather than the current law. Nowadays, the law (see the article) is either ignored or the evidence being forged/forefeited..

решать по Чечне, решать по олимпиаде, решать по Ленинскому...

the court of justice decides law;
the Jury decides facts;
Mr Medvedev and C gives law/decides/решает по Ленинскому (как уже ранее было "по Чечне", "по газу", по )...
Alexandra Taggart Mar 21, 2010:
Russia reminds me USSR more and more with every day.IMHO, USSR was run by high morals, though puffed up they were.There is an ironic pick at that from the author, can't you read it?
Rachel Douglas Mar 21, 2010:
2Viachaslau We're talking desperate verbal contortions here - can't afford to be literally accurate!

I agree with Alistair that Alex is on the right track (so to speak) and perhaps, in this limited case, Lenin really could be buried. But it needs to be proposed in headline form. How 'bout: "Fast Lane Decision Sought" ??
Alistair Gainey Mar 21, 2010:
Even though I like Rachel's pun, I would go with something like Alex's suggestion, particularly given that the article doesn't actually mention the name of the road. Readers might attach undue importance to the mention of Lenin, so I think it's better to be on the safe side and leave him out.
Alexandra Taggart Mar 21, 2010:
Leninskiy Prospect st With Alistar: I believe, it's where two cars collided.
Viachaslau Mar 21, 2010:
most likely Lenininst/Lenin-style and the like would be по-ленински in Russian, IMHO
Alistair Gainey Mar 21, 2010:
Leninsky Prospekt is the road on which the accident took place. I imagine the headline is play on words with "решать по-ленински", but I don't know how you'd translate that.

Proposed translations

+6
18 mins
Selected

fast track justice, 'fast lane' justice

I suggest you Leave Lenin out of it. Try to experiment with 'justice' and link it to the 'fast lane' where the accident took place. Since the public is demanding a quick trial for the culprits, I suppose 'fast lane' could work.
Peer comment(s):
agree Alistair Gainey : I think something like this is the best option
14 mins
agree TvNellen (X) : I like it
18 mins
agree Rachel Douglas : As a headline: "Fast Lane Decision Sought"
42 mins
agree Judith Hehir : Yes, this is the right idea.
46 mins
agree Oleksiy Markunin : We should convey the meaning, not words. Your variant sounds really good.
8 hrs
agree Olga Cartlidge : I have been following the developments but didn t get the impression that they want a fast track trial. It s justice that the people want to be done. /However Fast Lane Justice sounds great as well as the comments u posted above - straight to the point.
12 hrs
neutral Victor Zagria : so, where's the pun?
14 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
7 mins

to make a Lenin-style decision

i think they must be referring to Lenin as a former USSR chief
Peer comment(s):
neutral Victor Zagria : is it faithful enough (I mean THE pun) ?
14 hrs
Something went wrong...
+1
12 mins

Solve the matter like Lenin would have

But note this is a pun: the accident took place on the Leninskiy prospekt in Moscow. It would be very difficult to render this in English, but maybe someone else has a suggestion?
Peer comment(s):
agree Alexandra Taggart
1 hr
neutral Victor Zagria : wheres the unique play on words?..
14 hrs
Something went wrong...
+2
25 mins

A Prospective Leninist Decision

You want an awful play on words to translate the same? There you go.
Peer comment(s):
agree Alexandra Taggart : "On a Prospective Leniniskiy Decision"
6 mins
Thanks, Alexandra.
agree Tokyo_Moscow : With Alexandra
6 hrs
Thank you.
neutral Olga Cartlidge : I like your Fast Lane Decision Sought, Rachel. Or perhaps "playing fast and loose' could be elaborated one way or the other or High Living in Fast Lane.
13 hrs
Thanks, Olga. I'd be wary of getting too far away from the allusion to a decision needing to be made. But if Clive did take that variation, I'm sure he would add the article: "High Living in _the_ Fast Lane."
neutral Victor Zagria : all in all - it's the way they decide legal matters. 'Leninsky' is a sipher for this particular case and the VERY subject of the play-on-words game?
14 hrs
Thank you for commenting Victor, although I have no idea what you are trying to say with "sipher" (cypher? code-word?) and "the very subject for." Anyway, Clive has plenty of food for thought now, to figure something out.
Something went wrong...
+3
58 mins

A Decision a la Lenin

And the pun gets lost here.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2010-03-21 22:33:26 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Or: Decision-making a la Lenin
Peer comment(s):
agree Alexandra Taggart : I thought it's not allowed - to quarrel.
48 mins
Yeah, I'm all wet here, Alexandra. Thanks.
neutral Victor Zagria : juz have some rest, Judith, u look tired...:))
14 hrs
Thanks, Victor.
agree Alex Marshall : Judith, those post-Soviet trolls above are incredible. How have you been putting up with them all this time?
17 hrs
It's all good, Alex. I take it all in stride. Thank you. Perhaps the French is throwing them off?
agree Olga Cartlidge : I quite like "a la Lenine"as it s a reference to an era when Felix Dzerzhinsky (the Iron Felix) was running the show and there was no such thing as a fair trial. Only I d add appropriate French accents over vowels with an "e" at the end i.e. LeninE.
1 day 13 hrs
Thanks, Olga. I'm not all that proficient in French, as you can see.
Something went wrong...
2 hrs

title... or WHO TO DECIDE?

The author, probably, tried to make a title more attractive by associating the name of the Lenin’s époque and the name of the street or the district court. He could do this using the right grammar (по-ленински) – too much straight forward; or (по-ленинскому, like по-хорошему или по-плохому) – too much subtlety; both options could not work. The option the author used failed either. What is missing to improve the author's title could be …… «Решать по ленинскому…», where … may mean DISTRICT, STREET, or WAY, PRINCIPLE, guess which is right or both.
Suggest to use multiple dots in the title or make a new construction like WHO TO DECIDE?
Peer comment(s):
neutral Victor Zagria : ... or who's to boss me around?
13 hrs
Something went wrong...
+1
14 hrs

deciding law on "that Leninsky thing"

the case of Leninsky Pr. car crash is substituted by 'Leninsky thing' (adding some irony to the situation).
In this particular situation:
-- Mr Medvedev (and his oligarchic setting) decides law;
-- liudishky and the author decides facts ...
.. the verdict?..

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 hrs (2010-03-22 11:42:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

\Giving law to "that Leninsky thing"\ is flavoured with irony, as well

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 hrs (2010-03-22 11:53:32 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Leninsky" is the way muskovites normally call the Leninsky prospect (avenue) as much as 'leninsky' (adj) in Russian means 'pertaining to Lenin, begaving leninessque'...
Due to the author, the outcome of the case is supposed to be another in the row 'leninsky thing' (when law is traded off for the needs of current politics) ...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 hrs (2010-03-22 12:10:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"решать" ("решать вопрос") has always - since Lenin's times - bore a meaning of 'ruling some current matter out' on the grounds of political necessity rather than the current law. Nowadays, the law (see the article) is either ignored or the evidence being forged/forefeited..

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 hrs (2010-03-22 12:12:23 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

\решать по Чечне, решать по олимпиаде, решать по Ленинскому...
Peer comment(s):
neutral Alex Marshall : nothing ironic about the whole 'thing'... makes no sense -- more of the usual taggart-talk... you two are not related perchance?
5 hrs
oh, nothing at all.. just bitter sarcasm, if one's into the context. Желательно хоть раз попробовать на себе, а не "на кошках"
agree Alexandra Taggart : Politics are simple:there are Judi,Rachel,Jack and Mark and those who hover around them,cling at them like mussels on a ship hull in hope they may catch something in the flow.The mussels hate the dolphins,as their tomorrow competitors.Are you a dolphin?
2 days 10 hrs
U may well undrstand that I'd not have interfered if it hadn't been for the politics. I've got some personal attitude to the POLITICS connotation in the context provided ...\E-eh, apparantly, i used to be a merry troll at the start. Now, im a dolphin..
Something went wrong...
+1
10 hrs

Medvedev's decision on Lenin Avenue (prospekt) accident

/

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 days11 hrs (2010-03-25 08:36:41 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Or "Medvedev has to decide on Lenin Prospekt accident".
Peer comment(s):
agree Sergei Belay : if the acident did occur on Leninskiy Prospect (avenue), this is the correct translation. "To decide as Lenin would.." in Russian is "по-ленински", "по Ленинскому" is very and very much illiterate variant to refer to V.I. Lenin's way of taking decisions
1 hr
Thank you!
neutral Victor Zagria : "Правильным путем идете, ..."
4 hrs
Something went wrong...
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