| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8] > | KudoZ per-day asking limits - good or bad? Thread poster: Henry Dotterer
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Endre Both 
Germany
Local time: 07:00
English to German
| I'm back as an answerer and interested bystander | Sep 12, 2005 |
My subjective impression is that the quality of the questions has gone up. As a consequence (and aided by the increasingly sophisticated tools for fine-tuning our KudoZ email notifications), I see an increasing share of KudoZ questions I am interested in (either as an answerer or as a bystander eager to learn).
Endre
| | | | Klaus Herrmann
Germany
Local time: 07:00
Member (2002)
English to German
+ ...
| Not really a black/white choice | Sep 12, 2005 |
I'm not sure that 'better off/worse' captures all aspects of the question limits. True, there may be less abuse now but overall, I think enforcing common sense by imposing stricter rules is a sad thing. Limit or not, we'll continue to see questions of 'automotive experts' about what a tire is. However, I'd rather blow off some steam now and then, even misbehave than having to apply for a ProZ questioning license. Kim made an excellent point, but I think the solution is to ignore, educate and eve... See more I'm not sure that 'better off/worse' captures all aspects of the question limits. True, there may be less abuse now but overall, I think enforcing common sense by imposing stricter rules is a sad thing. Limit or not, we'll continue to see questions of 'automotive experts' about what a tire is. However, I'd rather blow off some steam now and then, even misbehave than having to apply for a ProZ questioning license. Kim made an excellent point, but I think the solution is to ignore, educate and even teach abusive askers, not to restrict them from asking questions.
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98 words ▲ Collapse
| | | | Steffen Walter
Germany
Local time: 07:00
Member (2002)
English to German
+ ...
| Less is more - build a higher-quality resource at the expense of lesser pace | Sep 12, 2005 |
Judging from the pairs I regularly participate in (EN>DE, DE>EN and FR>DE), I think that the sheer volume of questions has obviously gone down whilst quality has been improving overall. So, quite clearly, the limits do work against blatant abusers.
In my view, this effect outweighs the relative disadvantage of accumulating KudoZ answer/glossary knowledge at a somewhat lesser pace than before.
Steffen
[Edited at 2005-09-12 19:56]
| | | | Michele Fauble
United States
Local time: 22:00
Member (2006)
Norwegian to English
+ ...
| The new rules have made ProZ better. | Sep 12, 2005 |
Kim Metzger wrote:
I think what annoyed so many of us about serial askers was their perception that they could accept jobs they weren't qualified for and KudoZ would save their necks.
As usual, Kim's comments have hit the nail on the head.
I support the new rules, and I feel that they have improved the image of ProZ as a site for professionals.
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Jack Doughty
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:00
Russian to English
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In memoriam | Hamlet on ProZ | Sep 12, 2005 |
(Well, Henry did say "Poetic posts welcome"!)
To be, or not to be: that is the question:
Whether ‘tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The foolish queries of outrageous askers,
Or to take arms against a flood of questions,
And by restricting, cut them?
To tell them: “Ask no more!” And in this
way to save
The heartache and the thousand natural shocks
Translators die from.
‘Tis a consummation devoutly to be wished.
To... See more (Well, Henry did say "Poetic posts welcome"!)
To be, or not to be: that is the question:
Whether ‘tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The foolish queries of outrageous askers,
Or to take arms against a flood of questions,
And by restricting, cut them?
To tell them: “Ask no more!” And in this
way to save
The heartache and the thousand natural shocks
Translators die from.
‘Tis a consummation devoutly to be wished.
To rest, to sleep;
To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there’s the rub;
For in that sleep, what dreams may come to us!
The thought of damming up this endless flood
Should give us pause: what should it wholly cease?
That makes calamity of all our plans.
Then other sites might take this burden on,
And ours would fade away.
The oppressor’s wrong. Let him not staunch the flow!
Yet who would grunt and sweat to answer them, without incentive?
When he himself might his quietus make
By leaving ProZ?
We grunt and sweat under a weary life,
And yet we dread there’s nothing after that.
The mindless boring country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of.
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all;
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry,
And lose the name of action. - Softly now,
Thou noble Henry! Yea, in thy orisons
Be all our doubts remembered. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Better climate of interaction | Sep 12, 2005 |
In the English to Arabic subcommunity, we now have less reason to lecture users to quit posting their entire translation job one sentence at a time, to quit taking jobs they can't handle, to get a dictionary, to do an online search, or to check with their client. KudoZ has become an area for challenging translation issues that truly require collaboration of many brains for the benefit of all, not for frivolity.
The drop in abusive questions translates to a drop in total questions, b... See more In the English to Arabic subcommunity, we now have less reason to lecture users to quit posting their entire translation job one sentence at a time, to quit taking jobs they can't handle, to get a dictionary, to do an online search, or to check with their client. KudoZ has become an area for challenging translation issues that truly require collaboration of many brains for the benefit of all, not for frivolity.
The drop in abusive questions translates to a drop in total questions, but that is more than made up for by the improvement of the climate. ▲ Collapse
| | | | ------ (X)
German to Spanish
+ ...
| Prozians, Ladies and Gentlemen, | Sep 12, 2005 |
lend me your ears;
I come to answer kudoz,
and to praise them.
Bad answers that men give live after them;
The good ones oft interred in glossaries;
So let it be with kudoz.
The noble Henry
Hath told you kudoz are ambitious:
If it were so, it was a grievous fault,
Not grievously are kudoz answer'd here.
Here, under leave of Hen... See more lend me your ears;
I come to answer kudoz,
and to praise them.
Bad answers that men give live after them;
The good ones oft interred in glossaries;
So let it be with kudoz.
The noble Henry
Hath told you kudoz are ambitious:
If it were so, it was a grievous fault,
Not grievously are kudoz answer'd here.
Here, under leave of Henry and the rest--
For Henry is an honourable man;
So are they all, all honourable men--
Come I to speak in kudoz funeral.
They were my fun, as faithful as can be:
But Henry says they are ambitious;
And Henry is an honourable man.
He hath brought many members home to proz
Whose ransoms do the general coffers fill:
Did this in kudoz seem ambitious?
When that the grabbers cried, kudoz hath wept:
More members should be made of sterner stuff:
Yet Henry says they are ambitious;
And Henry is an honourable man.
You all saw askers a hundred times try to give us fun.
And now they are refused: is this ambition?
Yet Henry says they are ambitious;
And, sure, he is an honourable man.
I speak not to disprove what Henry did,
But here I am to do what I do know.
You all did kudoz once, not without cause:
What cause withholds you then, to mourn for them? ▲ Collapse
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I think that the forums are generally more interesting than KudoZ.Are there fewer questions? I hadn't noticed. I think it's a good thing for a professional site to try to prevent abuse and I do not think anyone would hire you because you have many KudoZ points. The jobs you have actually done are far more important!
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Schwabamädle
Canada
Local time: 01:00
English to German
+ ...
| I try to avoid questions | Sep 12, 2005 |
I dont like the feeling " what others may think if I post this question"
There has been so many issues about this and in my simple mind it is so easy. Dont answer if you dont like it! But I know this is a rather rare opinion shared, so I just go with the flow. Whatever works best.
| | | | | Site for Professionals Only or All-Embracing? | Sep 12, 2005 |
I have carefully read all the comments and I feel everyone has a valid point. From the member who pays his/her Platinum dues and works hard, to the newbie attempting at a new career path and tries just as hard, Proz.com has opened its arms to anyone willing to join.
I feel that the real question is, do you feel that Proz.com should cater to a more professional clientele, therefore "squeezing" out some newbies who may need a little more hand-holding, or should this be an "All-Welcom... See more I have carefully read all the comments and I feel everyone has a valid point. From the member who pays his/her Platinum dues and works hard, to the newbie attempting at a new career path and tries just as hard, Proz.com has opened its arms to anyone willing to join.
I feel that the real question is, do you feel that Proz.com should cater to a more professional clientele, therefore "squeezing" out some newbies who may need a little more hand-holding, or should this be an "All-Welcome" type community where anyone, at any level of expertise can join?
Just my $.02. : )
Indra. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Fair question | Sep 12, 2005 |
But perhaps it should be on a separate thread.
Indra Sweeney wrote:
do you feel that Proz.com should cater to a more professional clientele, therefore "squeezing" out some newbies who may need a little more hand-holding, or should this be an "All-Welcome" type community where anyone, at any level of expertise can join?
My own $0.02 is that it is not an either or, but rather both. I would not want ProZ.com to be anything less than a professional site for professional linguists at all career levels, from burgeoning professionals to retired professionals who want to interact with the world community of linguists for sharing information and expertise, for a sense of camaraderie and togetherness, and for increasing their business opportunities. All are indeed welcome, and holding hands is in order when needed, so long as holding hands does not degenerate to the situation we had before the new rules were implemented, when abuse was rampant in the name of all-embracing openness.
Let us take this topic to another thread.
| | | | | Kudoz Limerick Rhyme | Sep 12, 2005 |
Henry wrote:
Poetic posts welcome.
Here we go: a limerick!
There once was a fellow in kudoz
Too often repeating “are you proz?”
He slipped on a word
And no longer is heard
That funny old asker in kudoz!
Seriously,I think that we have all more or less adjusted to the new system. Personally, it's just fine as it is DZ
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| KudoZ per-day asking limits | Sep 12, 2005 |
Indra Sweeney wrote:
I feel that the real question is, do you feel that Proz.com should cater to a more professional clientele, therefore "squeezing" out some newbies who may need a little more hand-holding, or should this be an "All-Welcome" type community where anyone, at any level of expertise can join?
I don't think anyone wants to squeeze out newbies, Indra. I was a newbie five years ago and will forever appreciate the gracious help I got from the pros. KudoZ and ProZ.com forums became part of the program I developed for becoming a translator. I learned from colleagues and learned by contributing to KudoZ myself. It was a welcoming atmosphere for eager students then and it always will be, I believe.
As I see it, we have to distinguish between newcomers who are eager to learn and those who aren't. Every day I see people just starting out in the profession gradually get better at asking questions and start giving better answers to questions. I see them becoming better at doing their own research, buying new dictionaries, reading and contributing to the forums and responding to queries from pros asking for more context for their questions.
The problem is with the newbies who are asked for context but don't respond because all they want is "the answer" to their question, who can't be bothered to do some basic research before asking questions, who show by their many questions that they aren't really ready to be asking for money for their work. After a while, pros see that their professional advice is going unheeded and that helping them with their translations is tantamount to defrauding clients.
Kim
| | | | margarete
United States
Local time: 01:00
German to English
+ ...
I had already made this comment elsewhere, but for completeness sake I would like to repeat it here.
So far, I have not run into problems with the limits as asker.
BUT!
Personally I was never bothered by the amount of questions and simply ignored the abusers.
Now, there are definitely less questions and with that less opportunity for a little fun research. Each time I visit, there is really nothing much new, so I visit less often...
... See more I had already made this comment elsewhere, but for completeness sake I would like to repeat it here.
So far, I have not run into problems with the limits as asker.
BUT!
Personally I was never bothered by the amount of questions and simply ignored the abusers.
Now, there are definitely less questions and with that less opportunity for a little fun research. Each time I visit, there is really nothing much new, so I visit less often...
Overall, KudoZ for me simply has become a lot less fun!
It might be a question of personaltiy, but sometimes when I am stuck in some dreary job, I could use a little fun...
Cheers
Ariane ▲ Collapse
| | | | | I'm not seeing any exclusion of serious translators | Sep 13, 2005 |
Indra Sweeney wrote:
I feel that the real question is, do you feel that Proz.com should cater to a more professional clientele, therefore "squeezing" out some newbies who may need a little more hand-holding, or should this be an "All-Welcome" type community where anyone, at any level of expertise can join?
Just my $.02. : )
Indra.
I don't see it as exclusionary under any circumstances. Here's the thing: I've never in my life had to ask 5 kudoz in a day, because I've never had five phrases that I absolutely couldn't crack on my own between dictionaries and the Internet. My own observation in my language pair is exactly the same: none of the major parties on the board, including the non-plats, ask more than a couple of questions a day either. (Which is not to say that I don't reference the database of KUDOZ questions, I do that all day!)
I suspect it's because more experienced translators know not to take assignments they can't handle, and that's an important lesson for new translators to learn as well. Removing the crutch of asking 20 kudoz questions is only a positive for their long-term development, so far as I can see.
My two EUR 0.02 (they're worth more than the $ ones lately!)
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