| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8] > | Launch of TAUS/TDA inminent. The super cloud Thread poster: Felipe Gútiez Velasco
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heikeb 
Ireland
Local time: 12:57
Member (2003)
English to German
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| Machine Translation as ultimate goal? | Dec 7, 2008 |
IT manuals are excellent candidates for Machine Translation. With a huge corpus of bilingual translation units at their disposal, the big IT companies could fairly easily develop an MT system or modify an existing system catered to their needs. Statistics-based MT is gaining ground... And with a fairly restricted and predictable context chances are that the results would be good enough to make human translators superfluous. Only post-editors need apply...
| | | | | No streets paved with gold | Dec 7, 2008 |
Heike Behl, Ph.D. wrote:
IT manuals are excellent candidates for Machine Translation. With a huge corpus of bilingual translation units at their disposal, the big IT companies could fairly easily develop an MT system or modify an existing system catered to their needs. Statistics-based MT is gaining ground... And with a fairly restricted and predictable context chances are that the results would be good enough to make human translators superfluous. Only post-editors need apply...
Exactly. The only goal is to build up a huge bilingual corpus to feed statistics-based MT systems which, in the medium and long term, will help the promoters achieve huge reductions in translation costs.
Translators who, for any reason, are in a hurry to become post-editors or corpus maintenance reviewers will be happy to pay their big cloud membership to contribute with their translations.
As explained by Tomás, the quality of these corpora will be uncertain at best, if that matters. Those customers who care about the quality and character of their communications and image will possibly find that good and specialized translators working individually or in small and well coordinated teams are the best – or the only – qualified professionals who can help them reduce translation costs to reasonable levels by using last generation MT and CAT technology with no compromise in quality. Not for free, though.
| | | | | Procedural IT translations - Anybody wants them? | Dec 8, 2008 |
Heike Behl, Ph.D. wrote:
IT manuals are excellent candidates for Machine Translation. With a huge corpus of bilingual translation units at their disposal, the big IT companies could fairly easily develop an MT system or modify an existing system catered to their needs. Statistics-based MT is gaining ground... And with a fairly restricted and predictable context chances are that the results would be good enough to make human translators superfluous. Only post-editors need apply...
Exactly. That is the ultimate goal and anybody can see that. I have asked this many times, but will ask it again: Will we be sorry if the translation of "To open the file, please choose Open in the File menu" disappears from the market?
| | | | | Mmm... I don't know... | Dec 8, 2008 |
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote: Heike Behl, Ph.D. wrote:
IT manuals are excellent candidates for Machine Translation. With a huge corpus of bilingual translation units at their disposal, the big IT companies could fairly easily develop an MT system or modify an existing system catered to their needs. Statistics-based MT is gaining ground... And with a fairly restricted and predictable context chances are that the results would be good enough to make human translators superfluous. Only post-editors need apply... Exactly. That is the ultimate goal and anybody can see that. I have asked this many times, but will ask it again: Will we be sorry if the translation of "To open the file, please choose Open in the File menu" disappears from the market?
I don't know Tomás...
In the last 30 years, we have moved from the typewriter to the super-sophisticated computer with CAT software.
During this period, the time needed to translate a page of text has been reduced a lot.
The reduced costs have made it easier for companies to translate more material than before.
As a result, there is more work for translators than there used to be 30 years ago.
Whether it is more fun (or more profitable) being a translator now than it was 30 years ago, I don't know.
MT of any type will probably mean more post-editing work for more people. Whether it will be more profitable or more fun, I don't know, but it definitely looks like this is going to be part of the future in some fields.
Daniel
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dgmaga wrote:
In the last 30 years, we have moved from the typewriter to the super-sophisticated computer with CAT software.
I don't know, Daniel...
The technical progress you refer to has to do with productivity - none of these fairly recent tools you mention deal with intelligence. Hence, using these tools doesn't make a translator any better at what he does, only faster. And there will never be any tools that will enhance the intelligence required to translate, which is the crucial tool of the trade, despite what software editors have been trying to make us believe. A universal TM may speed up our work, but if those using it don't use their brains, the quality of translation will only worsen, not improve. Felipe says it best: cheap translations available to all.
| | | | | Abandoned topic? | Dec 10, 2008 |
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
It appears to me that you try to hide the facts to yourself because you love toying with the "global memory" idea... or desperately desire to be in it. Are you bored of being a translator Felipe? I would like to know. I mean it.
Felipe, not only you don't respond to my challenges (if you don't want to participate, simply let me know), you also ignore my questions. Have you already abandoned this forum topic? How come?
Felipe Gútiez wrote:
People egosum are in most cases bad translators.
Also, are you considering an apology for this completely inadequate (potentially offending) expression?
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Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote: Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
It appears to me that you try to hide the facts to yourself because you love toying with the "global memory" idea... or desperately desire to be in it. Are you bored of being a translator Felipe? I would like to know. I mean it.
I am not bored of being a translator, but I like many other things too: science, business, marketing ideas, literature (a lot). I hope there is anything wrong with it. Felipe, not only you don't respond to my challenges (if you don't want to participate, simply let me know), you also ignore my questions. Have you already abandoned this forum topic? How come?
Felipe Gútiez wrote:
People egosum are in most cases bad translators.
Also, are you considering an apology for this completely inadequate (potentially offending) expression?
Well, the expression is not originally mine. It came some months ago in the fora and I find it quite good (Williamson, a member of ProZ, used it in your tread "A proposal made about creating a cooperative - Would it be interesting to you?"). I don´t want offend, want be critical and maybe make people change attitudes.
As a translator, if you want to find the "correct" answer, it is very important to be open and humble to be able to receive new input. I myself am sometimes an egosum people, I must admit. And that is not good for me and for my translation. When I first heard that the word "dongle" in Spanish was a "mochila" I found it awful, I could not believe it. After a while, I changed my mind, was open and finally I find it a wonderful use of the word "mochila".(Yet even better I find that with the new versions of the TM tools, like Trados 2007, the gadget will fortunately dissapear).
Again, Tomás and everybody, the plattform starts in January. You can take part and participate or you can ignore it and loose a great opportunity.
[Editado a las 2008-12-10 10:04 GMT]
| | | | | I'm on the side of the losers | Dec 10, 2008 |
Felipe Gútiez wrote:
Again, Tomás and everybody, the plattform starts in January. You can take part and participate or you can ignore it and loose a great opportunity.
I think I prefer to be on the side of the losers for now... Thanks a lot anyway and take care!
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Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 04:57
English to German
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In memoriam | So you were soliciting business all the time. | Dec 10, 2008 |
Felipe Gútiez wrote:
Again, Tomás and everybody, the plattform starts in January. You can take part and participate or you can ignore it and loose a great opportunity.
Instead of discussing a concept.
This means that you used our forums as your free advertising space.
Interesting.
| | | | | Ah, but we are not so easy to turn | Dec 10, 2008 |
Felipe Gútiez wrote:
I don´t want offend, want be critical and maybe make people change attitudes.
You see, this is what I always find strange about your threads, Felipe. You are not here to have a discussion - you are here to twist people's arms. The strangest about it is that most of those people already told you they are not interested in arm-twisting, yet you keep going. You even add bits of "you'll be sorry" into the mix.
As I said earlier, you are addressing the wrong clientele. What part of that is not clear to you?
| | | | | I don´t think that I am addressing the wrong clientele | Dec 10, 2008 |
Viktoria Gimbe wrote: Felipe Gútiez wrote:
I don´t want offend, want be critical and maybe make people change attitudes.
You see, this is what I always find strange about your threads, Felipe. You are not here to have a discussion - you are here to twist people's arms. The strangest about it is that most of those people already told you they are not interested in arm-twisting, yet you keep going. You even add bits of "you'll be sorry" into the mix. As I said earlier, you are addressing the wrong clientele. What part of that is not clear to you?
The global memory, super cloud, gigantic corpora, whatever you name it will be used mainly by translators. All of you will use it, without exception.
The creature starts in January in a website and that is nothing we can do against (perhaps except putting a bomb in all the servers hosting it). I am expressly against this:
The topic will come thousands times again in the future, I promise you.
The question is, how will the global memory be done? What can we propose? Should there be several global memories for several branches?
A lot of very useful and interesting things have been said in the fora of ProZ until now.
I think this is very hot topic and is worth discussing it.
| | | | Ligia Dias Costa
Portugal
Local time: 12:57
English to Portuguese
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SITE LOCALIZER | Second Viktoria | Dec 10, 2008 |
Viktoria Gimbe wrote:
You see, this is what I always find strange about your threads, Felipe. You are not here to have a discussion - you are here to twist people's arms. The strangest about it is that most of those people already told you they are not interested in arm-twisting, yet you keep going. You even add bits of "you'll be sorry" into the mix.
As I said earlier, you are addressing the wrong clientele. What part of that is not clear to you?
I have pointed that out ages ago! No discussion whatsoever. Just twisting!
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Nicole Schnell wrote: Felipe Gútiez wrote:
Again, Tomás and everybody, the plattform starts in January. You can take part and participate or you can ignore it and loose a great opportunity.
Instead of discussing a concept. This means that you used our forums as your free advertising space. Interesting.
This was the sequence. I have the idea that grouping memories should be useful somehow. Then I look in Internet to see if someone has already had the same idea. I saw that Ives Champollion had already this idea but it did not work (the Very Large Translation Memory). The concept was modified from a global memory to a project-based specific tool. Then I found Jost Zetzsche and his www.translationtraining.com and tm trade. I called him, very nice person. I like it.
Finally I found out about TAUS. I think this is the most serious attempt to create seriously a global memory, but I am still convinced that it could have been possible for ProZ or Wikipedia. The advantage of TAUS is the prestige and trayectory of the motor: Jaap Van der Meer. But again, I am convinced, absolutely convinced that it is possible to create something only in Internet, without travels and without personal contacts. Is possible, but it is less fun. TAUS is already more than 5 years in the business and everything is ready. It will just suceed, no doubt.
| | | | | Yes, very interesting | Dec 10, 2008 |
Nicole Schnell wrote:
Instead of discussing a concept.
This means that you used our forums as your free advertising space.
Interesting.
Although it's been pretty obvious from Day 1.
The space has indeed been used for free, but it hasn't exactly been a "hearts and minds" victory. The failure to divulge this openly from the start will no doubt leave a bitter taste in most professional translator's mouths, so it's done more harm than good. Poetic justice if you ask me.
Felipe Gútiez wrote:
The creature starts in January in a website and that is nothing we can do against (perhaps except putting a bomb in all the servers hosting it). I am expressly against this:
Frankly, I can think of more appropriate places for planting a bomb, however we're not past the "9 p.m. watershed" yet, so I'll refrain from being overly descriptive.
| | | | Maria Karra
United States
Local time: 07:57
Member (2000)
Greek to English
+ ...
Felipe Gútiez wrote:
I don´t want offend, want be critical
You said you're a translator, correct? I wanted to look at your website but I got an error: "This account has been suspended. Please contact the billing/support department as soon as possible."
You might want to look into this.
The global memory, super cloud, gigantic corpora, whatever you name it will be used mainly by translators. All of you will use it, without exception.
I have to confess, I laughed when I read this. Felipe, seriously, no way. You have read our replies in your threads; is it still not obvious to you that you ARE addressing the wrong clientele and that so many of us are not interested in contributing to this project?
Personally I won't use it because I work in the aerospace field for the most part, and there is absolutely no way my clients or I would trust such a system for the translation of, say, autopilot manuals. And I bet that you DON'T want me to trust it either! Unless of course you only travel by train.
The creature starts in January in a website and that is nothing we can do against (perhaps except putting a bomb in all the servers hosting it). I am expressly against this:
We're not violent We'll just ignore it. Why bother with more drastic measures? I don't consider this project to be a threat to us translators, I think it's doomed to fail anyway so I'll just wait to see it fail and continue with my usual way of working happily ever after.
The question is, how will the global memory be done? What can we propose? Should there be several global memories for several branches?
I suggest we leave this up to those who have chosen to contribute to the project. Why brainstorm on something we're not interested in?
Maria
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