| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Help: Client is late paying and this seems ridiculous! Thread poster: David Jessop
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| I pray for the day... | Nov 11, 2009 |
... that every single translator on earth will say this to every client:
Laurent KRAULAND wrote:
"This invoice will be sold to my bank. I will get the cash immediately and you will be nearly forced to pay at maturity, else the bank will charge you late payment interests"....
| | | | John Rawlins 
Spain
Local time: 11:15
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Should translators also be saints? | Nov 11, 2009 |
I agree with Charlie - if you are lucky enough to have a contact working for the client, then you would have to be saint not to use that contact to help get your money. If you are dealing with a slippery agency, then it may be necessary to get your hands dirty.
| | | | | I'd "use" your girlfriend in another way | Nov 11, 2009 |
I'd ask her to find out who within her company ordered the translation and get their contact details. I would then contact this person and inform them that I retain the copyright until the translation has been paid for, that payment from the agency is overdue and that the company therefore cannot legally use it without your consent. That should get them on the phone to the agency within less than five minutes.
If you're a nicer person than I am, you might inform the agency of your i... See more I'd ask her to find out who within her company ordered the translation and get their contact details. I would then contact this person and inform them that I retain the copyright until the translation has been paid for, that payment from the agency is overdue and that the company therefore cannot legally use it without your consent. That should get them on the phone to the agency within less than five minutes.
If you're a nicer person than I am, you might inform the agency of your intentions in advance.
One thing I wouldn't do is get your g/f to act as a go between. I'm sure she has her own office politics to deal with. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Why use a middle man | Nov 11, 2009 |
Laurent KRAULAND wrote: ViktoriaG wrote:
Can you see the word interest plastered all over the quote? I sure can! I know, it sounds hilarious. Still, I wonder how potential clients would react to that. Maybe I would get less replies on my quotes, but the ones I would get would probably be of much better quality... Yes, I would think about that too - or saying "This invoice will be sold to my bank. I will get the cash immediately and you will be nearly forced to pay at maturity, else the bank will charge you late payment interests"....
At least within the EU, you can legally charge interest for late payment. Just state your intention to do so, and the applicable rate, on your invoices.
[Edited at 2009-11-11 20:05 GMT]
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Laurent KRAULAND (X)
France
Local time: 11:15
French to German
+ ...
| Who will ensure this? | Nov 11, 2009 |
Madeleine MacRae Klintebo wrote: Laurent KRAULAND wrote: ViktoriaG wrote:
Can you see the word interest plastered all over the quote? I sure can! I know, it sounds hilarious. Still, I wonder how potential clients would react to that. Maybe I would get less replies on my quotes, but the ones I would get would probably be of much better quality... Yes, I would think about that too - or saying "This invoice will be sold to my bank. I will get the cash immediately and you will be nearly forced to pay at maturity, else the bank will charge you late payment interests".... At least within the EU, you can legally charge interest for late payment. Just state your intention to do so, and the applicable rate, on your invoices. [Edited at 2009-11-11 20:05 GMT]
You have a point here, Madeleine... But from what I see from French outsourcers, and behaviours in France on a general level, the charge of legal interests is seen, understood and handled as a meaningless threat - this being probably linked to the fact that I have no mean to enforce the payment of legal interests, except if I hand over the case to an attorney. In such cases, selling invoices to my bank and paying a small fee is by far more interesting than hiring an attorney (and spending X months on a legal procedure).
[Edited at 2009-11-11 20:36 GMT]
| | | | | The applicable legal system | Nov 11, 2009 |
Laurent KRAULAND wrote: Who will ensure this? Madeleine MacRae Klintebo wrote: At least within the EU, you can legally charge interest for late payment. Just state your intention to do so, and the applicable rate, on your invoices.
[Edited at 2009-11-11 20:05 GMT] You have a point here, Madeleine... But from what I see from French outsourcers, and behaviours in France on a general level, the charge of legal interests is seen, understood and handled as a meaningless threat - this being probably linked to the fact that I have no mean to enforce the payment of legal interests, except if I hand over the case to an attorney. In such cases, selling invoices to my bank and paying a small fee is by far more interesting than hiring an attorney (and spending X months on a legal procedure).
I've got no idea how the legal system works in France, nor how easy/cheap it is to use or enforce judgements, but here in the UK I would use the smalls claims court. Thankfully, I've never had to try this out, but I believe that just stating on the invoice what the rules are has a positive effect when it comes to averting potential client misbehaviour.
| | | | | A couple of comments | Nov 11, 2009 |
As others pointed out, I don't think is very professional to involve somebody else (like your g/f) in a business relationship that only involves your agency and you.
Second thing, it is not a very good business practice to depend on only one agency for your cash-flow.
Third consideration, the agency you are working for is not being correct and professional, but this does not allow you to do the same. If their policy is to pay after 30 days and they do not comply, the... See more As others pointed out, I don't think is very professional to involve somebody else (like your g/f) in a business relationship that only involves your agency and you.
Second thing, it is not a very good business practice to depend on only one agency for your cash-flow.
Third consideration, the agency you are working for is not being correct and professional, but this does not allow you to do the same. If their policy is to pay after 30 days and they do not comply, then it is up to you to find the right way (through bank, attorney, agency or whatever else is available to you), to have them comply. This does not involve third-party contacts, subtle blackmailing, making a fuss with the end-client or similar.
It looks pretty obvious to me that after payment is cleared, you should avoid to work with this agency again.
[Modificato alle 2009-11-11 22:02 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 10:15
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| Please, be professional | Nov 11, 2009 |
David Jessop wrote:
I don´t want to work for this client again because of this, it´s ridiculous. But on the other hand, I don´t want to be unprofessional or escalate the situation.
I happen to think it's unprofessional to accept this situation. Would a plumber, a telephone company, the tax office, accept such a situation? Your contract is with your client - it has absolutely zero to do with your client's customer. Your client should be grateful that you don't expect your payment before delivering the goods - in many other industries that is normal.
IMO, what you need to do is (a) remind them of your terms (hopefully you made them clear at the start!); (b) tell them that payment is now (over)due; (c) tell them that you will in future charge interest on all overdue payments; (d) tell them that if you do not receive full payment within n (7/14?) days, you will initiate recovery procedures.
It just so happens that my girlfriend works for the end client company for whom I did the work, in another office. The agency already knows this. So I suppose one option is to tell them that I will speak with her so she can get in contact with the accounting department.
On the other hand, threats are highly unprofessional and possibly illegal. Stay businesslike and you have everything on your side.
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Laurent KRAULAND (X)
France
Local time: 11:15
French to German
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| Uncertain results | Nov 12, 2009 |
Sheila Wilson wrote: David Jessop wrote: It just so happens that my girlfriend works for the end client company for whom I did the work, in another office. The agency already knows this. So I suppose one option is to tell them that I will speak with her so she can get in contact with the accounting department. On the other hand, threats are highly unprofessional and possibly illegal. Stay businesslike and you have everything on your side.
Don't put your girlfriend's job in jeopardy - sad to say, but she may get burnt while trying to help you.
[Edited at 2009-11-12 06:39 GMT]
| | | | | Most of my clients pay late | Nov 12, 2009 |
Not everyone manages their finances in an orderly way and most of my clients, at one time or another, appear to transfer their payment voids onto me. I don't worry too much, as I have forged long-standing relationships with them.
It does require a certain presence of mind to accumulate a contingency fund, which most of my clients don't seem to have implemented. Despite my invoices stating "Net end of month + 30 days," these are some of my experiences with late payments:
... See more Not everyone manages their finances in an orderly way and most of my clients, at one time or another, appear to transfer their payment voids onto me. I don't worry too much, as I have forged long-standing relationships with them.
It does require a certain presence of mind to accumulate a contingency fund, which most of my clients don't seem to have implemented. Despite my invoices stating "Net end of month + 30 days," these are some of my experiences with late payments:
• I have a client that consistently misplaces my invoices and after a series of claims, she just asks for the total amount owed. Payments come every three months.
• My best client (over 50,000 words per month) has paid consistently every two months for the last five years. Every once in a while they require some prodding, after which they apologize and pay, usually the next morning.
• I exchanged emails with "the largest agency in the world" for a whole year until I got paid in whole. Some invoices where three years old. I gradually stopped working for them. Recently, they deposited by mistake $2600 into my account. I did not realize this until after a couple of months had gone by, and now I have to work "for free." If they have a mess, what can you expect from clients with no accountants?
• Recently, a small and trustworthy company announced a big client of theirs was falling behind with payments and was offering to cancel at a 30% face value. They said they would pay me "in full, but within a few months." And they did, with apologies and a 2% interest.
• Even my best regular payers loose invoices or fall behind at one time or another, making it necessary for me to send reminders.
If I were in your shoes, I would answer two questions: 1) Am I valuable to them? 2) Are they valuable to me? If the answer to either question is no, I would loose them. Else, I would politely insist every now and then and reluctantly accept more work. (I know I'm going against the majority with this opinion, but given the current situation, my clients are precious to me.)
Regards,
Daniel
[Edited at 2009-11-12 07:31 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Unspoken assumption(s) | Nov 12, 2009 |
Laurent KRAULAND wrote:
Don't put your girlfriend's job in jeopardy - sad to say, but she may get burnt while trying to help you.
Speaking for myself, when suggesting that David leverages the possible influence of his g/f in resolving this issue, there were a number of assumptions that I thought it pointless to state explicitly in a discussion of this kind. She naturally has to be willing, and have either the clout or the contacts for the exercise to have any point whatsoever, and indeed, either feel safe to do so or be unperturbed by the potential consequences. There are any number of factors that two grown adults can probably work out for themselves - I understood David's initial query to be focussed on the ethics, not the practicalities, of the situation. And as I said, with the (important) assumption no laws are broken or contract terms breached, you sometimes need to pull every string available, whether it's your friend at the golf club, your chum in the freemasons, the bloke next door or, as here, your girlfriend. Whether it is wise to get the g/f involved, only David and the lady in question can possibly know; as to the ethics, opinion is clearly divided
| | | | | Misunderstanding | Nov 12, 2009 |
Hynek Palatin wrote:
I probably didn't express myself clearly.
Sorry Hynek, I most likely misconstrued what you wrote. We agree, then, that whatever the agency agreed on with its end client should have no incidence on when or whether David gets paid by the agency.
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David Jessop
Laos
Member
Spanish to English
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TOPIC STARTER
Hello...
First of all, I want to thank all of you for weighing in on my situation.
At the end of the day yesterday I made the decision about how to handle it. I won´t go into too many details about it but I could describe my response as having walked a middle path.
I was strong in my words. I did say clearly that I thought their behavior was unprofessional and unethical, and that they had put me in a bad position, especially to have told me their policy w... See more Hello...
First of all, I want to thank all of you for weighing in on my situation.
At the end of the day yesterday I made the decision about how to handle it. I won´t go into too many details about it but I could describe my response as having walked a middle path.
I was strong in my words. I did say clearly that I thought their behavior was unprofessional and unethical, and that they had put me in a bad position, especially to have told me their policy was 30 days out when in reality it was, "whenever the client pays us, we´ll pass it on to you" and that I had expenses as well. I told them that if we did not find a solution to this problem I would pass the troubles on to them. I did not bring my girlfriend or anyone else into the situation specifically.
Maybe I was too strong and I should have been gentler. I don´t know.
According to them, I certainly was. Their reaction was that I was "lacking respect" and "threatening" and "having a business is difficult".
My response was that my intention was only to get what they owed me, nothing more. Which is entirely true. I did a job, I deserve to get paid according to the agreed upon terms and I feel like they threw me into a hole where I had to scramble to get out, even if I got my pants dirty. If I had not responded strongly, I would have felt like I was leaving the door open for them to not pay me at all [especially since this was a progression from the last time].
A check was mailed today.
Needless to say, we will not be working together again .
Would I have done some things different next time? Definitely. Do I feel I handled it totally wrong? No.
Food for thought.
Best,
David
[Edited at 2009-11-12 18:22 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | John Rawlins
Spain
Local time: 11:15
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Never mind the words - where's the money? | Nov 12, 2009 |
David Jessop wrote:
According to them, I certainly was. Their reaction was that I was "lacking respect" and "threatening" and "having a business is difficult".
In Spain respect is sometimes measured in words rather than deeds. It usually pays to filter out the words and just focus on the money. Well done for getting tough - let's just hope that the cheque really is in the post.
By the way, you may know that payment by cheque is quite unusual in Spain. I have only ever had one client pay me by cheque - and they went bankrupt last year.
| | | | | 'Tis a truth universally acknowledged.... | Nov 12, 2009 |
David Jessop wrote:
Their reaction was that I was "lacking respect"
.... that those who bang on about respect the most are typically the least deserving of it.
OK, maybe not universally acknowledged, just something I've noticed. And they quite often bang on it about under circumstances that have little or nothing to do with respect. Sounds to me like you are best off out of it. Hope the cheque arrives and, furthermore, does not bounce.....
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