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This question was closed without grading. Reason: Answer found elsewhere
Mar 26, 2010 15:36
14 yrs ago
2 viewers *
French term

collectivités

French to English Social Sciences Real Estate
The meaning is contrasted with "particuliers" on a website for installing solar panels. Examples of collectivites are "immeubles a appartements, piscines publics, maisons de repos", so basically buildings larger than private homes, which are used by larger numbers of people, but aren't necessarily public buildings. Also descibed in one section as "grands systemes" - referring to the fact that larger buildings will naturally require a larger system to be installed.

An additional constraint comes from the fact that this is a website, and so although when the term appears in freeflowing text i can be wordy, it also appears in a few menu items/tabs and so I am limited for length.

The only thing i can come up with, having looked through the glossary, is "groups", but that falls quite short of what i'm looking for.

Lemon squeezy...
Proposed translations (English)
4 +3 community
3 +3 community facilities
4 +1 community buildings
4 +1 local authorities
4 +1 non-residential facilities
3 community locales
2 communal users
References
US website

Discussion

Wendy Cummings (asker) Mar 29, 2010:
Having considered this at some length, I have gone with a "get out" option of "large installations". When needed, I can specify the exact types of building this refers to, but this seems to be the only way I can think of to cover all the possibilities that "collectivites" encompasses, and to stick within the space restriction.
Thanks to everyone for their indepth discussion on this one - I knew it wasn't going to be easy!
wfarkas (X) Mar 29, 2010:
"Non-residential Facilities" Revisited Unfortunately there is no single umbrella term that would cover "collectivités" in the sense of "immeubles à appartements, piscines publics, maisons de repos, etc."
Here are some definitions you may wish to consider in the subject context:
1) Commercial Property= Property used for the sale of goods and/or services.
(Living accommodations such as apartments, hotels, and motels are classified as Commercial Property.
2) Community Services Property= property used for the well being of the community.
3) Recreation & Entertainment Property= Property used by groups for recreation, amusement, or entertainment.
4) Public/Institutional Property= property used to provide services to the general public.
5) Industrial Property = property used for the production and fabrication of durable and nondurable man-made goods.
margaret caulfield Mar 27, 2010:
Wendy, I also saw on the website "grandes installations". Maybe that would help! I hope so.
margaret caulfield Mar 27, 2010:
Right, Sarah. Thanks for the explanation. I must admit you had me a bit lost there.
Wendy Cummings (asker) Mar 27, 2010:
another angle Drawing from the fact that the website also uses "grands systemes", perhaps something along the lines of "larger projects/large-scale projects" - i.e. skirt round the problem completely!
Sarah Puchner Mar 26, 2010:
just an idea Hi Margaret,
I'm just throwing out some ideas, the difficulties and options here, the concept in general, thinking out loud, in the hopes of getting closer to a compound word or group of words that has all the different meanings Wendy needs. When I think of apartment buildings, for example, I think of "managers" - the people who run them, the same for retirement homes etc., the people who are likely to be involved in decisions regarding energy sources. But that is just my particular train of thought ...
These are just ideas, for discussion purposes. I hope that explains my post. I really enjoy the discussion thread feature because I think it's possible to be a bit more free with our ideas, than committing to a definite solution to the translation.
kashew Mar 26, 2010:
Collectivité: Un groupe, une société.
Circonscription administrative qui a ses propres responsabilités.(Quillet 1975)
So local authorities proposed by Phil Goddard seems fine in the context.
margaret caulfield Mar 26, 2010:
Sarah, There's been no request for ONE word. By the way, what do "managers" have to do with this? I'm very curious!
Sarah Puchner Mar 26, 2010:
I think it is going to be more than one word Try as I might I just can't imagine that one word in EN is going to cover apartments, rest homes, swimming pools etc as efficiently as "collectivités" does.
This has a US slant but I think it's possible to be a bit bold as you translate "particulier" , maybe using "single family homes" (emphasis on the building type) then all you need (!) is a word or 2 to describe communal facilities/buildings. If you want to keep it as the people rather than the buildings, you could say "home owners" for particuliers" and then again, all you need (!) is a snappy word (or 2, hopefully not more than 2!) for government managers, building managers, facilities managers etc...
Wendy Cummings (asker) Mar 26, 2010:
its deefinitely used there (have to rush off so can't find the refs), but eg: Les solutions ESE sont régulièrement sélectionnées pour leur qualité et leur performance par des particuliers mais aussi par des collectivités (immeubles, piscines communales, maisons de repos...) et des entreprises (chaînes d'hôtels, stations de lavage de voitures...). I think it can mean either, depending on how i want to angle it.
philgoddard Mar 26, 2010:
I can't find the word "collectivités" on the website, but it sounds like your original explanation might have been wrong and you actually meant the people who own the buildings, not the buildings themselves. Is that right?
margaret caulfield Mar 26, 2010:
Thanks, Wendy. Having seen it, I now definitely think this should be translated as "communities".
Simon Mac Mar 26, 2010:
Some other solar companies ... ... talk of individuals and institutions... not an answer but might help trigger some thoughts...
Wendy Cummings (asker) Mar 26, 2010:
I'd already been debating whether to post the website, but I suppose its in the public domain so there isn't any issue: www.ese-solar.com (the source files i've been given are very slightly different from the live site, but nothing that should affect thsi question)
margaret caulfield Mar 26, 2010:
Wendy, If you gave us the website, we might be able to help further.
ormiston Mar 26, 2010:
looks like you need a term to distinguish USERS rather than PREMISES (as reflected in most of the suggestions),
Wendy Cummings (asker) Mar 26, 2010:
For further guidance: the website is from the solar panel manufacturer, providing information for customers about its product range, how solar energy works etc. The menu structure goes something like this:
Our products > Solar heating > pour le particulier/pour le collectivite.

So once you're past this bit, I can use wordier phrases to describe what it means, but I need to make sure that this initial menu is clear enough to direct people to the right place. It is fairly directly contrasted here with "particulier".
Wendy Cummings (asker) Mar 26, 2010:
One other term that they use is "grandes installations", although since i´m trying to instil a bit of consistency in this job, i´ll probably use the same target term for all
Chris Hall Mar 26, 2010:
collectivities... collectivity [ˌkɒlɛkˈtɪvɪtɪ]
noun (pl. collectivities)
1. the quality or state of being collective

I would think that collectivities would be a suitable translation for the French "collectivités" in this context.

Proposed translations

+1
1 hr

community buildings

*
Peer comment(s):
agree Chris Hall
7 mins
Thanks.
Something went wrong...
+1
2 hrs

local authorities

Now that we have the full context, it's clear that this refers to the bodies which operate these facilities, rather than the buildings themselves. You could say "communities", but I think "local authorities" is more appropriate in this context.
Reference:

http://www.wordreference.com/fren/collectivité

Peer comment(s):
neutral Jack Dunwell : I think this is not yr excellent (otherwise) translation. Sorry Phil. What I mean is that your answer would fit most circumstances, but (I think) not this time where it deals with individuals together rather than authorities imposing
4 mins
Thanks for your comment, though I'm not sure I understand what it means.
agree kashew : I think this really is the right answer!
2 hrs
Me too! Thanks.
neutral margaret caulfield : Having seen the website (and I did find "collectivés on the left), I don't think so. I actually deleted my very similar answer as a result. Check the website again.
3 hrs
agree Chris Hall
3 hrs
Thanks Chris
disagree swisstell : this is hardly an actual (social) government type of thing - which your "local authority" implies - but rather a matter governed by an association such as a home owners association or a selfgoverning board of a COMMUNITY COMPLEX.
4 hrs
Who said anything about socialism?
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+3
3 hrs

community facilities

However, for larger installations, such as a swimming pool or similar community facility, the extra cost of evacuated tubes can prove worthwhile in the long run. Much depends on individual circumstances and the intended use, so it is best to seek professional advice if you’re in any doubt.

http://www.energysavingcommunity.co.uk/how-solar-water-heati...

I'm not sure a single term in English is going to cover all of your examples - I think Phil's is a good suggestion for the building-related one, but maybe you could work something like this in too. (Maybe you could just use For individuals / For communities on the navigation and then spell it out elsewhere).



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Note added at 3 hrs (2010-03-26 18:40:52 GMT)
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Sorry, this doesn't make much sense now - the previous answer I was referring to was "multiple-occupancy buildings.
Note from asker:
My eyes are drawn to the term "larger installations"....
Peer comment(s):
agree swisstell : if you "expand" on my previous entry, I agree
21 mins
Thanks - sorry, wasn't trying to steal your thunder.
agree Liliane Hatem
2 hrs
Thank you.
agree Kim Metzger
21 hrs
Thanks, Kim.
Something went wrong...
4 hrs

communal users

Maybe: individual users / communal users?
Definition of 'communal': (2nd and 3rd definitions):

2 : of or relating to a community
3 a : characterized by collective ownership and use of property b : participated in, shared, or used in common by members of a group or community
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/communal

http://www.hermann-kirchner.com/index.php?id=294
in the area of real estate for private and communal users and investors.

http://www.argusgasamericas.com/
There is no risk of reduced supplies to households or communal users, POGC said.

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/3548118/A-College-of-Engineering...
Depending on the intended end-users, these greenhouses can be as small in size for single families, or large enough for communal users.

Something went wrong...
+3
6 mins

community

although "collectivity" as a straight translatin also might work.
The people partaking in such a community would usually be called an association (homeowner's association) here in the US.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs (2010-03-26 23:04:04 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

you can expand this to e.g. COMMUNITY COMPLEX or to community xxx (as some of the later entries suggested).
Reference:

http://iate.europa.eu

Note from asker:
if I were a customer (owner of one of these collectivities) and I saw "community" I'm not sure if i would instinctively know it applied to me, rather than a section about community action or work by the company
Peer comment(s):
agree Anthony Roles
7 mins
thank you, Anthony!
disagree Chris Hall : Agree with Phil. / I do not have a tutor. I can speak for myself.
49 mins
Are you really trying to help the asker? Your agreeing with multiple and diverse answers including those who copied my earliest "community" proposal, does not make much sense and suggests a different motive altogether.
agree kashew : OK
2 hrs
thank you, kashew!
agree Jack Dunwell : This has a common usage aspect rather than control by the local community. I think.
2 hrs
thanks a lot!
agree Stephanie Ezrol
7 hrs
merci beaucoup!
Something went wrong...
9 hrs

community locales

Hello,

This is not easy to translate because they aren't necessarily builidings (swimming pools, if they're outdoors)

Retirement homes, public swimming pools and apartment buildings are community locales. Perhaps that may be best here... I don't know...

education to community locales such as libraries, churches, and community cen- ters. They are also responsible for recruit- ...
www.northfloridahealthcorps.org/.../AmeriCorpsNewsletter_Ja...

I hope this helps.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2010-03-27 01:13:00 GMT)
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http://www.alltsolutions.com/cpart.htm

http://www.ese-solar.com/solaire-thermique.php

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2010-03-27 01:14:27 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

particularités = private locales (family homes, private club locales, etc)
Something went wrong...
+1
10 hrs

non-residential facilities

The program is limited to business facilities XXX square feet or larger where XYZ Company delivers electricity and/or natural gas in its service territory. Commercial, industrial, institutional and governmental facilities are eligible for the program.

N.B. Notwithstanding their "residential"use, apartment buildings are classified as COMMERCIAL revenue properties.
Note from asker:
Despite the fact you say apartment blocks are classed as commercial, I'm not sure if i were a customer (owner) looking for info about solar panels for my apartment block if i would instinctively know this term applied to me
Peer comment(s):
agree Catharine Cellier-Smart : I think this term is the most suitable here in this context
4 hrs
Appreciate your feedback.
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

9 hrs
Reference:

US website

Maybe this similar website will help, it uses "residential" and "commercial & gov't" as tabs. Doesn't exactly line up with your categories, but could be a starting point ...
Reference:

http://www.sharpusa.com/SolarElectricity.aspx

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