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Peinture minute
compensations forfaitaires d’équilibre
Oct 31, 2019 08:28
4 yrs ago
French term

le savoir créer

French to English Art/Literary Poetry & Literature
One of those "savoir" phrases the French seem to love!

The context is fine craftsmanship, described as "l'excellence du savoir-faire et du savoir créer, autrement dit une expression de talent, de technique et de créativité".

The expression is repeated in the next paragraph: "les valeurs du savoir créer et du savoir-faire se fondent sur une légitimation historique et culturelle".

I need a solution that works for both "savoir-faire" and "savoir créer".

Thank you.
Proposed translations (English)
4 Creative skills
4 +5 Creativity
4 +1 creative knowledge
4 +1 creative flair
3 +1 the savoir-faire to make and create
4 Workmanship
3 knowing how to create
3 artistry OR [reword sentence]
2 creativity and artistic skill

Discussion

Nikki Scott-Despaigne Nov 2, 2019:
The source separates "savoir-crérer" and "savoir-faire". Although both could fall withint the term "creativity", I think there is a need to keep the distinction in the original, one being about having being able to come up with the ideas, the other being about having the necessary practical skill to produce something. The greater context will no doubt help to decide whether you can (or even should) stick both in the same box and use "creativity" alone.
Yvonne Gallagher Oct 31, 2019:
@ Asker I think Carol's "creative genius" works well there... The excellence of the know-how and creativity, or, in other words, the expression of talent, technique and creative genius...
The 2nd sentence: The values of know-how/savoir-faire and creativity stem from (OR are based on) historical and cultural legitimisation.
Yvonne Gallagher Oct 31, 2019:
@ Asker I was writing on my phone earlier so needed to keep it short! But I wanted to say that while "savoir faire" can be and is used in English for know-how/expertise/skills, that the "savoir" bit is redundant in English "creativity" (and I suspect in French also!) as yes, it is "self explanatory" as the word itself includes the know-how/knowing-how-to (be creative) meaning.

It's just French wordiness and no reason to be wordy in English too, though I like Carol's "creative genius".
Sandra Petch (asker) Oct 31, 2019:
No Although it seems self-explanatory: the ability to create/be creative.
Cyril Tollari Oct 31, 2019:
Do we have a definition for "savoir-créer" like we do for "savoir-faire" (know-how)?
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savoir-faire

Proposed translations

13 hrs
Selected

Creative skills

I would translate this as "know-how and creative skills", the distinction between "savoir créer" and "créativité" being that the former is the skills to bring about abstract creative ideas and the latter (créativité) the abstract creative thought/idea itself.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you to everyone. I went with technical skills (the know-how a craftsperson would learn through training) and creative skills."
1 hr

knowing how to create

If you want to play with the idea of 'know-how', maybe something like 'the know-how and the know-how-to-create'.

Otherwise, I would maybe go from there and expand it to 'the values of knowing how to do and knowing how to create...' (or the ability to do and to create). I think that way they work together and in both the contexts you shared.

Hope it helps!
Peer comment(s):
neutral Carol Gullidge : ...not really! "the ability to do"??
4 hrs
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+1
1 hr
French term (edited): le savoir-faire et le savoir créer

the savoir-faire to make and create

Hi Sandra,

Just a suggestion that I think has a nice ring to it.

I would personally change the sentence structure slightly, i.e.:
- The savoir-faire/know-how/skill/ability/expertise to make and create

"l'excellence du savoir-faire et du savoir créer...": "the expertise to make and create..."
"les valeurs du savoir créer et du savoir-faire se fondent...": "The values of this know-how find their source..." or something along those lines.

Have a lovely day,


Peer comment(s):
agree Wolf Draeger : I like the practical/abstract juxtaposition of "make and create"—perhaps "...knowing how to make and create with excellence..."?
28 mins
Thank you!
neutral Carol Gullidge : I actually find this a bit clunky - To me, this sounds clunky :( ...both the "savoir-faire to make" and the "savoir-faire to create", but together it sounds worse// ha ha, nice try! You could say that about any translation that misses the mark!
1 hr
It is a little long indeed, but it was also a way of foreignising the text, if our Asker wants to.
neutral philgoddard : This is a tautology.
3 hrs
An intentional one :)
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+5
1 hr

Creativity

That includes know-how or knowing how to create

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Note added at 2 hrs (2019-10-31 10:30:09 GMT)
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So I think either
expertise and creativity or
savoir faire and creativity or even
skills, talent and creativity
match the French idea
Note from asker:
@Yvonne 12:57 [Click here to delete your post] [Click here to edit your post] Thanks for your suggestion. If "savoir créer" is translated as creativity, how would you translate "créativité" in the next part of the sentence? "L'excellence du savoir-faire et du savoir créer, autrement dit une expression de talent, de technique et de créativité"
Peer comment(s):
agree Irene Chalmers Preire
17 mins
Thank you
agree Carol Gullidge : "know-how and creative expertise" (for the whole thing) or even "creative genius..."// yes, perhaps "creative expertise" is unnecessarily clunky!
43 mins
Thank you. Yes, several ways of saying it. I think "creativity" is self-explanatory but "creative genius" is nice too
agree Jennifer White : Knowhow and creativity.
1 hr
Many thanks:-)
agree philgoddard : In answer to Sandra's additional question, I'd ignore "créativité" as it's saying the same thing again.
3 hrs
Thanks:-)
agree Nikki Scott-Despaigne : I like this for "savoir-créer", the hyphen is important. The original marks it out from "savoir-faire" for a reason, probably the former meaning to be creative (having the ideas), the latter about being skilled with your hands.
2 days 1 hr
Many thanks:-) yes, I agree. Savoir faire=(practical) expertise/skills
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2 hrs

artistry OR [reword sentence]

Oftentimes I end up reworking this kind of sentence to get the same idea across without having to butt heads with this or that word, but in this case "artistry" might do, as art is by definition creative and fine craftsmanship is very often considered a work of art.

If you do rework the sentence, you could translate savoir-créer by "imagination" or "inspiration" or the like.

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Note added at 4 hrs (2019-10-31 13:23:41 GMT)
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To expand on my answer, I think "artistry" implies applied creativity, i.e. the ability to not only come up with creative ideas but also put them into practice and work them into an item or object, which goes nicely with craftsmanship.
Example sentence:

[...] excellence in skill and artistry that speaks of talent, technique and creativity.

[...] artistry and know-how spring from an appreciation/understanding of tradition and culture.

Peer comment(s):
neutral Yvonne Gallagher : I don't agree that "artistry" and "creativity" are synonyms here
54 mins
I never said they were, just that artistry includes creativity.
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+1
5 hrs

creative knowledge

https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691164977/cr...
Creativity Class: Art School and Culture Work in Postsocialist China ... the rise of a Chinese artistic vanguard and creative knowledge-based economy, Creativity ...

https://www.surfaceartassociation.com/
Surface Art Association (SAA) is a membership-based organization open to ... in sharing their creative knowledge and innovations, exhibiting artwork and ...

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Note added at 5 hrs (2019-10-31 13:51:47 GMT)
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This is not exactly the same as "creativity", as that is about the application of creative knowledge and involves mental and physical energy too.
Peer comment(s):
agree Gareth Callagy
3 hrs
Thanks Gareth
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5 hrs

creativity and artistic skill

covers the two concepts. (really, this is a shot in the dark).
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+1
1 day 4 hrs

creative flair

Just another option to consider.
Peer comment(s):
agree Marian Vieyra : Yes, there are many options, but I like this one best.
4 hrs
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4 days

Workmanship

"Le savoir créer" makes me think of a person's ability to create things with his hands, so I why not workmanship?
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