в ночь на (and в ночь с...на, в ночь с...по)

English translation: the night of

21:31 Sep 13, 2014

Russian to English translations [PRO]
Other

Russian term or phrase: в ночь на (and в ночь с...на, в ночь с...по)

«Лайнер Costa Concordia затонул в ночь на 14 января 2012 года: корабль напоролся на риф, слишком близко подойдя к берегу острова Джильо.»

This is an especially frustrating phrase for me. Seeing that sentence, I want to translate it as: "The liner Costa Concordia sank ON THE NIGHT OF January 14, 2012...". However, I realize that the word "night" carries in it a lot of ambiguity. Night, after all, can be anything from 7 p.m. to 5 or 6 a.m. I can't be sure that I know what «на» means here, either. Does this mean "the night that began on January 14 and end with the morning of January 15" or "the night that began on January 13 and end with the morning of January 14" (Wikipedia, by the way, gives the latter as the date of the liner's sinking)?

I can't count out the possibility of linguistic confusion due to prior translations, either. The original news item was taken from the Telegraph (says the given Russian-language news item), but the news magazine containing it is published in a former Soviet Republic with a large non-Russophone population -- I can't exclude the possibility that this brave little news item has taken the path of English --> language of former Soviet state --> Russian --> my current translation into English. Some confusion could have resulted from that, or someone could have simply put "14" instead of "13" somewhere: it happens.

A related question: is there any difference between в ночь с...на and в ночь с...по? Are these largely synonymous with в ночь на (+ acc.) without «с», or is there a difference in meaning?

BrianHayden
United States

English translation:the night of

Explanation:
In common usage, night is understood to extend until sunup. Also, According to news reporting, the Costa Concordia actually stuck the reef between 21:42 and 21:45 the night of Jan 13. It had come to rest on the bottom at an angle of about 70 deg. by 22:44. It would have been dark but several hours short of midnight, when a pedant might say Jan. 13 became Jan. 14. A Google search will provide you with all the particulars.

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Note added at 3 hrs (2014-09-14 01:09:29 GMT)
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Sorry, should have read "struck the reef."

Selected response from:

James McVay
United States
Local time: 17:00

Grading comment

Selected automatically based on peer agreement.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

5 +2

the night of

James McVay

the night that began on end with the morning of

Turdimurod Rakhmanov

the night that began on January 13 and end with the morning of January 14"

Turdimurod Rakhmanov

Discussion entries: 8

Turdimurod Rakhmanov

Kyrgyzstan

04:54 Sep 14, 2014

в ночь с 13 Января на 14 Января (означает переход на 14 января) means switching (changing over) to 14 January
в ночь с 13 января по 14 января (означает кусочек времени с 13 по 14) means time interval between 13 to 14.

Evgeny Artemov (X)

South Africa

Right,

01:43 Sep 14, 2014

as Turdimurot and James said, the night of Jan. 13 (even without "с"). "Ha" always implies the FOLLOWING day(light).
"С...по" is, like I said, a range of dates. OK, you can сertainly say, "в период с 14 по 15 сентября" (which sounds VERY bureaucratese, instead of just "14 и 15 сентября"), but NOT "в ночь с 14 по 15 сентября". It will be wrong.

BrianHayden

United States

ASKER

01:27 Sep 14, 2014

Actually, the magazine isn't published in Moldova or Ukraine... The magazine has, as far as I can tell, impeccable Russian. I pulled «в ночь с...по...» from a list of puzzling Russian phrases I keep -- unlike «в ночь на», it wasn't in this news item anywhere -- so it actually has nothing to do with my client.

BrianHayden

United States

ASKER

01:23 Sep 14, 2014

If I've understood you correctly, that means Russian «в ночь на 14 января» (without any «с») would be "on the night of January 13"?

Evgeny Artemov (X)

South Africa

Neither просторечие nor regional

00:44 Sep 14, 2014

Downright wrong (and pretentious to boot). Sounds like "entrance out" or "egress in" although not as funny.

As for the night, Russians tend to call "night" the time from going to bed (say, 22:00, 23:00) to approx. 3 am. They say "3 часа ночи", но уже "4 часа утра".

And it will be ночь на ... (date of the day that follow it, NOT preceed it).

Your new item published in Moldova or Ukraine (whichever) was published earlier in Russia (Lenta.ru, http://lenta.ru/news/2014/09/05/concordia/) in good Russian and has nothing to do with regionality.

Incidentally, Russians divide "days" not with "eight bells"/24:00, but the time of sleep, hence the expression: в ночь с 13 на 14. That is, the day (i.e. daylight) of the 13th has "ended", while the following day (i.e. daylight) has "not yet began".

Hence two Russian jokes: "В ночь с пятницы на понедельник..." and "Когда проснулся, тогда и доброе утро".

"24:00" , "12.00 pm" or "0.00 am" divide не дни, а СУТКИ.

BrianHayden

United States

ASKER

00:23 Sep 14, 2014

Evgeny Artemov, that's probably what I will do. I'm still very curious as to the exact usage of these three constructions for future reference, though.

BrianHayden

United States

ASKER

00:22 Sep 14, 2014

A prescriptivist might not approve, but it seems that some Russian-speakers do use в ночь с...по... it in reference to one night. See this link: http://otvet.mail.ru/question/85471707 [random result of a Яндекс search]. Perhaps it's просторечие or regional usage?

Evgeny Artemov (X)

South Africa

@Brian

22:34 Sep 13, 2014

1. Can you contact the client, explain the English usage and the actual timing and ask for permission to change the wording to "late on the 13th?"

2. You can't say «в ночь с...по»". It's ungrammatical. «с...по» gives a range of dates standing at least 1 day apart and usually implies "inclusive" at both ends (at least the final date), but the belt-and-braces writer may add "включительно".

Answers

4 mins confidence:

the night that began on end with the morning of

Explanation:
yes, this mean "the night that began on January 14 and end with the morning of January 15"

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Note added at 8 mins (2014-09-13 21:39:29 GMT)
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overnight into January 14

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Note added at 10 mins (2014-09-13 21:41:42 GMT)
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the night that began on January 13 and end with the morning of January 14"

Sorry, this is correct, I confused

Turdimurod Rakhmanov
Kyrgyzstan
Local time: 03:00
Native speaker of:

Uzbek,

Kirghiz
PRO pts in category: 48

2 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +2

the night of

James McVay
United States
Local time: 17:00
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 44

Grading comment

Selected automatically based on peer agreement.

10 mins confidence:

the night that began on January 13 and end with the morning of January 14"

Explanation:
the night that began on January 13 and end with the morning of January 14"

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Note added at 8 hrs (2014-09-14 05:43:08 GMT)
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в ночь с 13 Января на 14 Января (означает переход на 14 января) means switching (changing over) to 14 January (that night after 12, January 14)
в ночь с 13 января по 14 января (означает кусочек времени с 13 по 14) means time interval between 13 to 14.

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Note added at 8 hrs (2014-09-14 05:44:44 GMT)
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например билет продается с 13 января по 14 января

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Note added at 8 hrs (2014-09-14 05:51:38 GMT)
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в ночь с 13 января по 14 января - two nights
в ночь с 13 января на 14 января - one night only 14 January

Turdimurod Rakhmanov
Kyrgyzstan
Local time: 03:00
Native speaker of:

Uzbek,

Kirghiz
PRO pts in category: 48

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в ночь на (and в ночь с...на, в ночь с...по)

English translation: the night of

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