Glossary entry

English term or phrase:

maitre d'

English answer:

maitre d' (avoiding both plural and direct possessive)

Added to glossary by B D Finch
Jan 8, 2014 08:01
10 yrs ago
8 viewers *
English term

maitre d'

English Other Food & Drink question about spelling
If possible, I want to avoid using the complete form (maitre d'hotel - with an accent on the "i"), so - describing the various roles of a maitre d', how should I write the possessive form of the plural - mailtre d's' ? It looks terrible!
Change log

Jan 8, 2014 08:30: writeaway changed "Language pair" from "Italian to English" to "English" , "Field (write-in)" from "hotel and restaurant staff" to "question about spelling"

Jan 13, 2014 11:36: B D Finch Created KOG entry

Discussion

Charles Davis Jan 8, 2014:
I agree with others that it would be better to avoid the possessive entirely. The possessive form maîtres d's' may be logically correct but it is extremely awkward, looks like an error, and will simply puzzle the reader. There is always a satisfactory way of rephrasing these things.

One more comment: the form maître d' is in any case primarily American. "Maître d'hôtel" is certainly correct, but a bit formal. Perhaps you could consider "head waiter"?
Charles Davis Jan 8, 2014:
The plural of maître d' is undoubtedly maître d's. It is a rare case in which a plural ending in apostrophe-s is correct. It may actually be unique; I don't know whether there are any other nouns in English that end with an apostrophe. This apostrophe signifies contraction, not possession; it is effectively a letter. There is no argument for removing it in forming the plural. Dictionaries and style manuals seem to be unanimous on this, and it is logically unassailable. The trouble is that it looks wrong, because plurals in apostrophe-s are quite commonly used and apart from this exceptional case they always are wrong.
Tony M Jan 8, 2014:
@ Asker There is no problem whatsoever using 'maître d'hôtel' in a restaurant context — no-one will be confused, it is a perfectly standard term; in fact, not many hotels would have a 'maître d'hôtel' unless they had a restaurant!

But as BDf has said, the best thing would be to re-phrase slightly to avoid needing the possessive at all; you don't unfortunately give us the full sentence, but I'm willing to bet that the use of the possessive here would actually sound awkward anyway. Please give us the full sentence so we can help you better.
ulvaferry (asker) Jan 8, 2014:
Apostrophe Tom in London confirms the apostrophe rule I remembered, but the indication of the plural of maitre d' as maitre d's is on several apprarently reliable Web sites...
Lara Barnett Jan 8, 2014:
@ ulvaferry I realise this, but I was interested in how the word fits into the structure of the sentence. This may affect choice of word.
writeaway Jan 8, 2014:
But since the question is about English spelling, I shifted this to English monolingual since maybe native English speakers can help. Otherwise suggest checking on Google.
ulvaferry (asker) Jan 8, 2014:
Maitre context The context is a description of the various skills a truly qualified maitre must have...
ulvaferry (asker) Jan 8, 2014:
I'm translating from Italian, where maitre is used on its own, which is why I posted as ITA->ENG The maitres in question work in both hotels and restaurants, so (to avoid confusing non-native speakers) I don't want to write the English maitre d'hotel in full...
writeaway Jan 8, 2014:
Shouldn't this be a question for English monolingual?
Lara Barnett Jan 8, 2014:
@ Ulvaferry Can you show the context please?

Responses

+7
1 hr
Selected

maitre d' (avoiding both plural and direct possessive)

First of all, without any information about how this fits into a sentence, it's rather difficult to advise. However, I suggest that you might consider avoiding both the plural and a surfeit of apostrophes, e.g. "the skills of any maitre d' should include ... ".
Peer comment(s):

agree Tony M : Absolutely! As you say, we do need to see the whole sentence; but I strongly suspect that the use of the possessive would in any case sound awkward here...
5 mins
Thanks Tony.
agree Carol Gullidge : exactly! Indeed, as used by the Asker in the Discussion above: "the various skills a truly qualified maitre must have."
45 mins
Thanks Carol
agree Charles Davis : Excellent advice: just don't go down that road at all; find a detour.
1 hr
Thanks Charles. Wriggling skills are essential for all good translators.
agree Sheila Wilson : As the asker has specified GB ENG then perhaps the term is better replaced by head waiter in any case, although I would still avoid a plural possessive.
2 hrs
Thanks Sheila. Yes, "head waiter" could be an option, though it's a bit less grand.
agree Ashutosh Mitra
4 hrs
Thanks Ashutosh
agree Yvonne Gallagher : a maitre d' is not a "head waiter", as SW says above, imo
8 hrs
Thanks Gallagy
agree Tina Vonhof (X) : and without any accents.
13 hrs
Thanks Tina. Yes.
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2 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
36 mins

maîtres d’hôtel's

"The plural of maître d'hôtel is ."
"Forming the possessive case of compound words: for compound words, make the last word in the group possessive. ex: The secretary of state’s speech was televised."
That is if you insist on having this compact possessive structure. But really, I would highly recommend you turn your sentence around so you can have something like: "Duties of maîtres d'hôtels typically include..."
Peer comment(s):

disagree Tom in London : there should be no apostrophe unless the noun is possessive
12 mins
Asker does want to know the possessive form though...
agree Tony M : I agree that to get round the apostrophe problem, it would be best to write it in full; there is no problem with the 'hôtel' part, since in the profession, it is well know that you have a maître d'hôtel in a restaurant (in fact, LESS likely in an hotel!)
28 mins
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-1
4 mins

maitres'

leave the "d'" out

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Note added at 5 mins (2014-01-08 08:07:03 GMT)
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Of course, the "i" has a circumflex accent

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Note added at 50 mins (2014-01-08 08:52:18 GMT)
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if you want to write"d'", then I would look for a way to avoid using the possessive "s" (using "of, belonging to, relevant to, concerning, pertaining to, etc." instead)
Note from asker:
Although maitre is used on its own in Italian, it would seem that the correct GB ENG qualification is maitre d'hotel or (more commonly) maitre d'....
Peer comment(s):

disagree Tom in London : there should be no apostrophe unless the noun is possessive
43 mins
It is a possessive! See what the asker has written
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