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Si el pícaro supiera las ventajas de ser honesto, sería honesto de puro pícaro

English translation: If the knave knew the benefits of honesty he would be honest out of pure knavery

12:47 Jul 15, 2011
Spanish to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Idioms / Maxims / Sayings / Old Spanish proverb
Spanish term or phrase: Si el pícaro supiera las ventajas de ser honesto, sería honesto de puro pícaro
I have found various versions of this phrase. Others include...
si el pícaro supiera las ventajas que trae consigo ser hombre de bien, sería hombre de bien por picardía
Si el pícaro supiera las ventajas de ser honrado sería honrado de puro pícaro que es
Si el pícaro sufriera de las ventajas que tiene ser honrado, sería honrado por picardía.
Si el pícaro conociera las ventajas de ser honrado, lo fuera por pícaro por ende soy un "pícaro" honesto.

One reference I found attributed it to Benjamin Franklin, another to Emerson, but most just call it an old Spanish proverb. I'm struggling particularly with how to translate pícaro. The best I've come up with is...

If the rogue were truly a rogue, his very rogueishness would cause him to be honest.
josephinemoulds
Local time: 09:53
English translation:If the knave knew the benefits of honesty he would be honest out of pure knavery
Explanation:
Just a suggestion.
Selected response from:

FVS (X)
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +7If the knave knew the benefits of honesty he would be honest out of pure knavery
FVS (X)
4 +3A truly cunning rogue is cunning enough to be honest
Simon Bruni
4 +1If the scoundrel knew the advantages of being honest, a true scoundrel would be honest
Michael Powers (PhD)
3 +2If the rascal were aware of the advantages of honesty, the rascal in him would make him honest. OR
moken
4If rascals knew the advantages of virtue they would become honest men out of rascality.
DLyons
4If hustlers saw an angle in honesty, they'd turn honest.
Pablo Julián Davis
4If the devil knew the benefits of honesty, he would be honest out of sheer deviltry
Jenni Lukac (X)


Discussion entries: 6





  

Answers


7 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
If the scoundrel knew the advantages of being honest, a true scoundrel would be honest


Explanation:
one option

Mike

Michael Powers (PhD)
United States
Local time: 04:53
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 58

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  anademahomar: I love your option
9 hrs
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18 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
If the rascal were aware of the advantages of honesty, the rascal in him would make him honest. OR


Explanation:
If the rascal was aware of the advantages of being honest, the very rascal in him would drive him to honesty.

Another take on it.

I chose rascal to provide other alternatives (scally, scalawag, scallywag might others), but personally I prefer scoundrel.

:O)

moken
Local time: 09:53
Native speaker of: Spanish
PRO pts in category: 49

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  DLyons: Really well done!!! You've pretty much recreated the original. // Mine is just a quote I found on Google. But you've done original work!
15 mins
  -> Thanks DL. I also like the alternative approaches you and Simon have taken. :O) // Well, not really. I largely based mine on Josephine's own suggestion. I don't think I'd have got quite as far all on my own! :O)
agree  Mónica Algazi: Wow!
1 hr
  ->  Thanks Moni. :O)
agree  Salloz
1 hr
  -> :O)
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23 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
A truly cunning rogue is cunning enough to be honest


Explanation:
or
A rogue who knows the advantages to being honest is cunning enough to be honest

or
A truly cunning rogue knows the advantages to being honest

Simon Bruni
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:53
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 52

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Mónica Algazi: The shorter, the more powerful. I like this one, too!
1 hr
  -> Thanks, Monica :)
agree  Thayenga: Short and straight to the point. :)
1 hr
  -> Thanks, Thayenga :)
agree  Rosa Paredes
5 hrs
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29 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +7
If the knave knew the benefits of honesty he would be honest out of pure knavery


Explanation:
Just a suggestion.

FVS (X)
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Teressa Weaver: I like the word "knave." It has a touch of history to it. Rogue is my 2nd choice for pícaro.
32 mins
  -> Thanks Teressa.
agree  Bubo Coroman (X): I have to confess to a weakness for knaves too
52 mins
  -> Thanks Deborah. Knaves and la picaresca to me conjure up similar images.
agree  Thayenga
1 hr
  -> Thanks Thayenga.
agree  Elizabeth Joy Pitt de Morales: A lovely turn of phrase!
1 hr
  -> Thanks Elizabeth.
agree  Charles Davis: Yes, "knave" has a nice period feel, but this gets my vote for the structure of the phrase; it is a very good idea to emulate the chiasma of the original // Sorry, stupid of me; I meant chiasmus, not chiasma!
2 hrs
  -> Thanks Charles. I must remember to look up chiasma.....
agree  Rosa Paredes: "knave"....
5 hrs
  -> Thanks Rosa.
agree  James A. Walsh
8 hrs
  -> Thanks James.
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31 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
If rascals knew the advantages of virtue they would become honest men out of rascality.


Explanation:
Benjamin Franklin.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 32 mins (2011-07-15 13:19:20 GMT)
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Or maybe Mark Twain!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2011-07-15 13:54:25 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Seems to be a Benjamin Franklin quote OK. It's citedin the following peer-reviewed article:

"Body, Mind, and Soul", Paul Dudley White, Journal of Religion and Health.

DLyons
Ireland
Local time: 09:53
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 20
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
If hustlers saw an angle in honesty, they'd turn honest.


Explanation:
US street slang version, c. mid-20th century.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2011-07-15 14:27:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Since we don't know if the translation is meant as an Engl. rendering of an 'old Spanish proverb' and therefore a bit antiquated/literary, or as a more contemporary take on this old idea, it's hard to nail the register. I went for a more contemporary, gangster/film noir sound. Trying too for brevity (something Simon manages well).

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2011-07-15 14:32:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

What saves me from having to add something at the end like 'as a hustle' is that the word 'angle' folds in two meanings: there's an advantage, and a connotation of the illicit.

Pablo Julián Davis
Local time: 03:53
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 8
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
If the devil knew the benefits of honesty, he would be honest out of sheer deviltry


Explanation:
Another angle. There's a tradition of referring to people as devils in an archetypal sense (He's a real devil, the devil made me do it, he's up to deviltry . . .) that makes me think that devil might work here. It makes me think of folkloric metaphors that are still popular in songs like the Charlie Daniel's Band's "The Devil Went Down to Georgia".

Jenni Lukac (X)
Local time: 10:53
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 47
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