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collaboratrices de choc
Jun 22, 2011 18:44
12 yrs ago
French term

sans fanfare ni trompettes

French to English Art/Literary History
Context: the memoirs of a Frenchman called up for WWII. At the station where the conscripts are leaving, he notes that the atmosphere is sad and heavy with no jingoistic ideas of victory.

'les appelés partaient come prévu... sans fanfares ni trompettes" , unlike, he says what had happened on similar occasions before. I assume he is indeed possibly talking about bands, music, songs to encourage the men, but I'm not sure that it's absolutely necessary for the translation to be "musical". I had thought of putting "without pomp and ceremony". All ideas gratefully received, and thank you in advance.
Proposed translations (English)
4 without bands playing and flag-waving
3 +8 without fanfare
3 +3 without pomp and circumstance
4 +1 without any fanfare or trumpets
5 low profile
4 without any fuss or ado
4 with no fanfare nor trumpets
4 -1 by the back door
3 without drums drumming and pipes piping
2 almost sneaking out
2 humbly, without panache
Change log

Jun 22, 2011 20:02: Jean-Christophe Vieillard changed "Language pair" from "English to French" to "French to English"

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (1): cc in nyc

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Discussion

Helen Shiner Jun 22, 2011:
@katsy You could say 'without fuss or fanfare' (a standard expression) if you wanted to keep two terms, but since a fanfare is often/generally played on a trumpet or other brass instruments, I think the French is deliberately a little playful. Anyway, the trumpets don't get an explicit mention in EN generally.
katsy (asker) Jun 22, 2011:
sorry got my negatives mixed up at the end - correction: 'in Sep 1939 - unsurprisingly'
katsy (asker) Jun 22, 2011:
@ phil and helen thank you. I do realise that 'sans fanfare ni trompettes' is a figure of speech (and indeed a reworking - though probably unintentional on the part of the author, a 'simple soldat', not a 'writer' - of 'sans tambour ni trompettes')-hence my hesitation about a literal translation; also, the 'trompettes' bit just made me forget the rather simple 'without fanfare', which has been proposed. As has been said on this page, in WWI, the departures for the front were accompanied by optimism, glorification (maybe a brass band send off etc.) and the sentence itself makes it clear to my mind that all this gung-ho type stuff was missing in Sep.1939 - hardly unsurprisingly.
Helen Shiner Jun 22, 2011:
@jmleger Precisely what is meant. The comparison is with the 1st World War.
jmleger Jun 22, 2011:
25 years earlier their fathers had gone enthusiastically into a war which was supposed to last a few weeks, and turned out to be the first industrial war ever, leaving 17 million dead in its wake. The second time around they were understandably much less enthusiastic, especially as they had placed so much hope in the appeasement mission of Neville Chamberlain.
philgoddard Jun 22, 2011:
Katsy: It doesn't literally mean there were no trumpets - it's a figure of speech. If it says fanfare in French, I see no reason not to use the same word in English.
Jean-Christophe Vieillard Jun 22, 2011:
sans tambour ni trompette Discrètement, secrètement, sans bruit.
http://www.expressio.fr/expressions/sans-tambour-ni-trompett...
katsy (asker) Jun 22, 2011:
Have I been misleading? Sorry, I may have misled some answerers... the phrase does refer to some kind of jollification, and I think it should be implied in the translation. After the bit quoted, the sentence continues: "comme ça s'était fait, disaient les journaux, dans toutes les guerres précédentes". I should have been clearer, sorry!

Proposed translations

3 hrs
Selected

without bands playing and flag-waving

I see no reason to depart from the (almost) literal.

It was still dark in the early hours of the 12th when the 1st Gloucesters, without BANDS PLAYING OR ANY OF THE FLAG-WAVING usually associated with the departure of troops to take part in an overseas war, paraded and marched to Bordon Station where they boarded two trains, the first of which arrived at Southampton at 5 a.m. and the second at 6.30 a.m.
http://mikeandjenny.me.uk/military_record.html

You, at your end, seem to have been having some wildly exciting times with your processions in which the Kaiser has been publicly done away with. It's a phase which all countries go through, I suppose. England did at the beginning of the war. But now we entrain for the Front WITHOUT BANDS PLAYING and do our best not to attract attention. We're a little ashamed of arousing other people's emotions on our behalf. All we want is a "Cheerio and God Bless You," for our good-bye. If we come back, it will be " jolly fine"; and if we don't it's "C'est la guerre"
http://www.archive.org/stream/livingbayonetsre00dawsuoft/liv...

Note from asker:
thank you Bourth. I may just go with the "no flag-waving" - which covers both the literal and figurative meaning - your suggestion goes best with the tone of the rest!
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "I realise I'm not going with the majority here, but this really fits my text the best, I feel. Thank to everyone for all the suggestions"
+8
2 mins

without fanfare

This is a phrase used fairly often in English to mean without any particular notice or celebration. It's an idea.
Reference:

http://www.vikingsgab.com/2011/04/08/stadium-bill-lands-without-fanfare/

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/money/52014275-79/ibm-machines-business-data.html.csp

Note from asker:
thank you Roberta!
Peer comment(s):
agree philgoddard : Yes, the "or trumpets" is redundant.
1 hr
agree jmleger : yes
1 hr
agree Helen Shiner
2 hrs
agree MSA-Translation
3 hrs
agree rkillings : Keep it simple. If you go on, may as well add "!!!!" for emphasis.:-)
3 hrs
agree Jocelyne S : "Bells and whistles" also comes to mind.
11 hrs
agree Evans (X)
13 hrs
agree mimi 254
14 hrs
Something went wrong...
17 mins

almost sneaking out

-
Note from asker:
thank you
Something went wrong...
28 mins

humbly, without panache

*
Note from asker:
thank you
Something went wrong...
-1
48 mins

by the back door

with no official recognition
Note from asker:
thank you
Peer comment(s):
agree piazza d : I would just add "as if by the back door"
10 mins
disagree philgoddard : This implies that they deliberately sneaked out when no one was looking, which is not what the French says.
39 mins
disagree Helen Shiner : I'm afraid, I also completely disagree with this interpretation.
1 hr
Something went wrong...
+1
10 mins

without any fanfare or trumpets

full expression, very common

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 mins (2011-06-22 18:56:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

especially in this sort of context where yes, there would have been bands and banners and handkerchiefs waving...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 58 mins (2011-06-22 19:43:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I meant to add above to be clear"on previous occasions", but this time, there is no celebratory send off, no pomp or ceremony (which would work too but imo exact match expression is better)
Note from asker:
thank you gallagy2
Peer comment(s):
agree Thomas Carey
2 hrs
thanks Thomas:-)
Something went wrong...
1 hr

without any fuss or ado

I think it means that there was nothing to mark the occasion - not necessarily a fanfare or trumpets.
Note from asker:
thank you
Something went wrong...
1 hr

with no fanfare nor trumpets

I thinks the literal translation is best in this case.
Note from asker:
thank you
Something went wrong...
+3
2 hrs

without pomp and circumstance

......
Example sentence:

: Farewell the neighing steed and the shrill trump, : The spirit stirring drum, the ear-piercing fife, : The royal banner, and all quality, : Pride, pomp, and circumstance of glorious war. : (Shakespeare's Othello, Act 3)

Reference:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/pomp

Note from asker:
thank you Verginia
Peer comment(s):
agree Kirsten Bodart : I think this is the best one in order to avoid any confusion about whether there were actually really trumpets and fanfares in WWI or not.
15 mins
Thank You Kristen !
agree Callum Walker : I would always use "pomp and circumstance" in this instance. A lovely expression (and indeed a lovely piece of music too!)
15 hrs
Thank you Callum
agree Heloise Harrap : defo!
18 hrs
Thank you Heloise !!
Something went wrong...
13 hrs

without drums drumming and pipes piping

Although "without fanfare" is undoubtedly correct, I miss the reiteration/doubling in the original term, which, according to my feeling, is less redundant than a matter of style.
Translating it into German would be somewhat easier, as there exists a very similar expression: "mit Sang und Klang".
Reference:

http://www.expressio.fr/expressions/sans-tambour-ni-trompette.php

http://dictionary.reverso.net/german-english/Sang

Note from asker:
thank you
Something went wrong...
14 hrs

low profile

another possibility
Note from asker:
thank you
Something went wrong...
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