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Glossary entry

Spanish term or phrase:

in prejuicio de la comunicación a las comunidades autónomas

English translation:

without prejudice to notification of the “Comunidades Autónomas” (Autonomous Communities)

Added to glossary by liz askew
Feb 23, 2011 15:05
13 yrs ago
1 viewer *
Spanish term

in prejuicio de la comunicación a las comunidades autónomas

Spanish to English Law/Patents Law: Contract(s) Clinical Trial Contract
Legal(ese) terms for a clinical trial in Spain.

Context:
Solicitar el dictamen del CEIC y la autorización de la AEMPS así como suministrarles la información y recabar las autorizaciones que procedan, ***sin prejuicio de la comunicación a las comunidades autónomas***, en caso de modificación o violación del protocolo o interrupción del ensayo, y las razones para ello.

I understand the words but not the meaning.
Proposed translations (English)
4 without prejudice to notification of the autonomous communities
4 notwithstanding notification to the autonomous communities
3 +1 notwithstanding notification to autonomous regional authorities
3 +1 respecting the communication protocols of the autonomous communities
3 while respecting existing communication channels with autonomous local authorities
References
sin perjuicio de las legitimas reducidas...
Change log

Feb 23, 2011 21:34: MedTrans&More changed "Field" from "Bus/Financial" to "Law/Patents" , "Field (specific)" from "Medical (general)" to "Law: Contract(s)" , "Field (write-in)" from "(none)" to "Clinical Trial Contract"

Mar 3, 2011 21:20: liz askew changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/1326434">MedTrans&More's</a> old entry - "in prejuicio de la comunicación a las comunidades autónomas"" to ""without prejudice to notification of the “Comunidades Autónomas” (Autonomous Regional Authorities) ""

Mar 3, 2011 21:20: liz askew changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/589274">liz askew's</a> old entry - "in prejuicio de la comunicación a las comunidades autónomas"" to ""without prejudice to notification of the “Comunidades Autónomas” (Autonomous Communites)""

Discussion

MedTrans&More (asker) Feb 23, 2011:
Many thanks to all who have helped, I'll have to use a bit of each of your versions really!!

Regarding your questions:
-Emma: CEIC has already been mentioned and spelt out in English (clinical investigation/research ethics committee).
- Also, as it's so much information in one condition I reckon I'll split it up into 'steps'.
-Jenni & Liz: It's important to mention Autonomous bit regarding comunidades autonomas, making it clear that we refer to Authorites at the same time.

I'll see if I can get someone fluent in legalese to have a look at my my final version.

Thanks again, Christopher
liz askew Feb 23, 2011:
@Jenni, I put this reference in my contribution as my answer is based on this. See page 25, point e)
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:6ir-6cKvI3gJ:www.c...
Jenni Lukac (X) Feb 23, 2011:
Thanks to both Liz and Emma. I agree that this should go to the legal forum. In any case, the document Liz shared must surely be available in translation somewhere. I agree with spelling out CEIC, at least the first time (we have no idea of the scope or full nature of the text being translated) and support Liz in insisting upon "Autonomous" because I'm certain that it's important here. "sin perjucio de" can be translated in several ways; Neil's "including" is an option. All said, it would be best to take it to the legal forum as all our opinions and suggestions are a bit flawed.
liz askew Feb 23, 2011:
Having said that, I really think this query should be posted on the legal forum, where you will get expert legal translators to help.
liz askew Feb 23, 2011:
oh, I see you've put Autonomous....doh. "Autonomous Communities" is pretty standard, IMHO, you don't need to be an expert on Spanish affairs to understand this concept surely?
liz askew Feb 23, 2011:
@Emma. "Regional authorities" does not convey the idea of Autonomous, IMHO. We all know that in the UK "Regional authorities" can be overly-controlled by central government, something the Spanish Autonomous Regions have fought against for many years.
Emma Goldsmith Feb 23, 2011:
@ asker A couple of comments on the translation you proposed in your comment to Jenni:
- CEIC needs to be translated (maybe you have elsewhere in your text?).
- protocols are usually amended, not modified
- I think the extra "protocol" added to Jenni's suggestion is misleading as we are talking about clinical trial protocols already.
- I agree with Jenni about approaching this as a list of steps.
- I'm glad you like "regional authorities". In English "Communities" is misleading unless your reader is well-versed in Spanish politics.
My two cents :)
liz askew Feb 23, 2011:
I think this is a legal query, not a medical one.
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:MrHsksJwiXEJ:www.a...
Mónica Algazi Feb 23, 2011:
SIN PERJUICIO DE That is what they most probably meant to say.

Proposed translations

2 hrs
Selected

without prejudice to notification of the autonomous communities

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:6ir-6cKvI3gJ:www.c...

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Note added at 2 hrs (2011-02-23 17:19:06 GMT)
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see page 25

and then equate this with the Spanish Royal decree 223/2004, as quoted in discussion box

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Note added at 2 hrs (2011-02-23 17:21:26 GMT)
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[PDF]
MINISTRY OF HEALTH AND CONSUMER AFFAIRS 2316 ROYAL DECREE 223/2004 ...
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View
ROYAL DECREE 223/2004 of 6 February regulating clinical ..... Without prejudice to the application of the general provisions laid down ...... without prejudice to notification of autonomous communities, in the event of any amendment or ...
www.cerc-europe.org/documents/Royal_decree_223.2004.pdf?...

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Note added at 2 hrs (2011-02-23 17:34:14 GMT)
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PROS AND CONS OF SPAIN'S HEALTHCARE - In View - NHS board level ...
Within most of the autonomous communities a regional health authority ... Spain is poorly provided compared with the rest of Europe: the UK has 60 per ...
www.leadershipdevelopment.nhs.uk/inview/inviewarticle.aspx?... - Cached

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Note added at 2 hrs (2011-02-23 17:35:30 GMT)
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1 The politics of devolution - The politics of devolution ...
Among many others, the UK, Spain, Italy and France are unitary states, ... autonomy enjoyed by the 17 autonomous communities created in Spain after 1978, ...
openlearn.open.ac.uk/mod/oucontent/view.php?id=399008...1... - Cached

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Note added at 2 hrs (2011-02-23 17:44:51 GMT)
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http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:XBFbGUD...

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Note added at 2 hrs (2011-02-23 17:45:15 GMT)
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KudoZ home » Spanish to English » Business/Commerce (general)
CC.AA.
English translation: Comunidades Autónomas - Autonomous Communities / Regions

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Spanish term or phrase: CC.AA.
English translation: Comunidades Autónomas - Autonomous Communities / Regions
Entered by: Sandra Alboum

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 days (2011-03-03 21:26:57 GMT) Post-grading
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#
A Map of the Region of Spain - Map of Spain with Province Shown ...
The map of Spain (with province's below) shows the various regions of Spain, which are known as the Autonomous Communities (las Comunidades Autónomas). ...
www.spanish-talk.co.uk/regions-of-spain/ - Cached - Similar
#
Navarre: Autonomous Communities of Spain, Vascones, Pyrenees ...
Navarre: Autonomous Communities of Spain, Vascones, Pyrenees, Basque Language, ... Battle of Roncevaux Pass, List of Navarrese Monarchs: Amazon.co.uk: Books.
www.amazon.co.uk/...Autonomous-Communities.../dp/6130369468 - Cached
#
[PDF]
Multi-nation building? Immigrant integration policies in the ...
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View
be rooted in Britain's imperial legacies (Hansen 2002), while French notions ..... recognition of the role of the autonomous communities in reception is not ...
www.sps.ed.ac.uk/__.../Andrew_Davis_Multination_building_Ma...
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Well done, thanks!!"
6 mins

notwithstanding notification to the autonomous communities

autonomous communities = regional authorities (Spain)

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Note added at 8 mins (2011-02-23 15:14:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry, after re-reading it I reckon they mean "including" rather than "notwithstanding", which is often the meaning of "sin prejuicio de..."
Something went wrong...
+1
9 mins

notwithstanding notification to autonomous regional authorities

It means that apart from obtaining authorisations from the AEMPS etc. the autonomous regional authorities must also be kept informed.
There are 17 Comunidades Autónomas in Spain, and each have their own regional government.

I would use the Spanish words "comunidades autónomas" and put "autonomous regional authorities" in brackets in English.
Peer comment(s):
agree neilmac : Although having posted more or less the same, I now think "notwithstanding" may not be the ideal choice...
8 mins
Thanks, Neil. I stand by "notwithstanding" :)
Something went wrong...
+1
8 mins

respecting the communication protocols of the autonomous communities

I believe that this is what they mean.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2011-02-23 16:33:03 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Starting with an infinitive collapses the syntax in English, but if it's a clause that shouldn't matter. If it isn't a clause within a long statement, but rather a list of steps that must be taken, I'd start with "Solicit". A few suggestions: recabar las autorizaciones que procedan - obtain the pertinent/applicable authorizations. I'd retain the commas and might even consider adding while/whilst or always to make the meaning clear, for example, "always respecting the communication protocols...". Just my humble opinion. Hope it helps!
Note from asker:
Thanks, I reckon this is probably it. What do you reckon about the way I've put it: To apply for the CEIC ruling and the authorisation from AEMPS (Spanish Agency of Medicines & Health Products) as well as providing them with information and collecting their authorisation – respecting the communication protocols of the “Comunidades Autónomas” (Autonomous Regional Authorities) – in case of modification or violation of the protocol or interruption of the trial, accompanied by an explanation to address the matter. I wanted to divide it up but I think Legalese has the same sort of overly long sentences as Spanish does, so I've left it as is.
Peer comment(s):
agree neilmac : Yes, or "including". Looks like another case of legalese for its own sake :)
1 min
Thanks, Neil. I took a more political look at this, comparing my experience between Aragon and Catalonia.
agree Mónica Algazi : 'cause it should actually have read "sin perjuicio de..."
17 mins
Thanks, Mónica. It's a classic.
disagree liz askew : this concerns communications/notifications to the Autonomous Communities, not their own communication protocols.
1 hr
Something went wrong...
5 hrs
Spanish term (edited): sin prejuicio de la comunicación a las comunidades autónomas

while respecting existing communication channels with autonomous local authorities

This is my take on it.

I used to keep a card in my desk drawer with 20 different translations for "sin perjuicio" -- it's tricky. However, I think Jenni's right about the 'respecting' part in this case.
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

1 hr
Reference:

sin perjuicio de las legitimas reducidas > without prejudice to ...
- [ Translate this page ]
3 posts - 2 authors - Last post: 7 Jun 2007
(KudoZ) Spanish to English translation of sin perjuicio de las legitimas reducidas : without prejudice to the statutory entitlements of the ...
www.proz.com › KudoZ home › Spanish to English › Law (general) - Cached

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Note added at 2 hrs (2011-02-23 17:35:24 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

1 The politics of devolution - The politics of devolution ...
Among many others, the UK, Spain, Italy and France are unitary states, ... autonomy enjoyed by the 17 autonomous communities created in Spain after 1978, ...
openlearn.open.ac.uk/mod/oucontent/view.php?id=399008...1... - Cached
Something went wrong...
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