Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

raisonner dans

English translation:

to reason in terms of

    The asker opted for community grading. The question was closed on 2011-02-11 16:54:15 based on peer agreement (or, if there were too few peer comments, asker preference.)
Feb 8, 2011 14:37
13 yrs ago
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French term

raisonner dans

French to English Social Sciences Philosophy
"on n’y raisonne pas dans la nécessité du fait accompli, mais dans la contingence du fait à accomplir"

My draft version is "what is argued here is not the necessity of accomplished facts, but the contingence of facts to be accomplished". Specifically I'm not sure about the preposition "dans" following "raisonner" (which probably does not mean "reason" here). Dans le cadre de?

This is a quote from Louis Althusser's Materialism of the Encounter essay.

Discussion

B D Finch Feb 10, 2011:
@marie It is somewhat unclear why you are rephrasing the quotation. Your second fact seems to have lost its "f". Whether that is associated with its unaccomplished contingency is not evident!
Marie-Pascale Wersinger Feb 10, 2011:
One does not reason according to the necessity of the accomplished fact but according to the contingency of the act yet to be accomplished
B D Finch Feb 10, 2011:
@marie I think that by rephrasing it you have changed the meaning. Indeed, the translation uses a capital letter for "Necessity" to clarify the meaning. In being accomplished, the fact has become necessary, while the fact yet to be accomplished is contingent. The statement is that one's reasoning is not based upon that Necessity, but says nothing about reasoning in terms of any other logic that may be a property of the accomplished fact.
polyglot45 Feb 8, 2011:
this is not about arguments but about the perspective from which one is reasoning - deed done or deed to be done
Jim Tucker (X) Feb 8, 2011:
probably "contingency" (rather than contingence) vs. "necessity", both philosophical modalities since Leibnitz. For Alth., the "fact of the matter" (fait accompli) is not determinant. Contingency is his aleatoric (encounter-based) force.
Gwidon Naskrent (asker) Feb 8, 2011:
Thanks, I forgot to mention that I would like to quote from an official English translation of this essay, if possible.
swisstell Feb 8, 2011:
turn it around and avoid your uncertainty by saying e.g. "the argument is not about the necessity of ...."

Proposed translations

+3
29 mins
Selected

to reason in terms of

When quoting from a published work, it is always worth checking whether there is an established translation into the target language.

See the translation below:

"... one reasons here not in terms of the Necessity of the accomplished fact, but in terms of the contingency of the fact to be accomplished . . . all the elements are both here and beyond [là et au-delà]"
http://www.generation-online.org/p/suchting_althusser.pdf


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Note added at 4 hrs (2011-02-08 19:09:18 GMT)
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I note Richard Nice's comment that Wal Suchting may have translated this himself. If that is the case, I think that Suchting's credentials as a scholar of Althusser are good enough to accept his translation.

Here is another published example of Wal Suchting's wording from An Althusserian Lexicon, Vittorio Morfino, translated by Jason Smith :

'"Before the accomplishment of the fact, before the world, there is only the non-accomplishment of the fact, the non-world that is merely the unreal existence of the atoms" (Althusser 1994a: 556). The same logic is present in Machiavelli, "not in terms of the Necessity of the accomplished fact, but in terms of the contingency of the fact to be accomplished"...'
http://www.borderlands.net.au/vol4no2_2005/morfino_lexicon.h...

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Note added at 4 hrs (2011-02-08 19:16:10 GMT)
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I note Richard Nice's comment that Wal Suchting may have translated the above himself. If this is the case, then I think that Suchting's credentials as a scholar and writer on Althusser are good enough to support his translation.

Also note the same quotation used in An Althusserian Lexicon, Vittorio Morfino, translated by Jason Smith :

'"Before the accomplishment of the fact, before the world, there is only the non-accomplishment of the fact, the non-world that is merely the unreal existence of the atoms" (Althusser 1994a: 556). The same logic is present in Machiavelli, "not in terms of the Necessity of the accomplished fact, but in terms of the contingency of the fact to be accomplished" ...'
http://www.borderlands.net.au/vol4no2_2005/morfino_lexicon.h...

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Note added at 4 hrs (2011-02-08 19:17:00 GMT)
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Sorry about the duplication above. However, the first note seemed to have disappeared into the ether.
Peer comment(s):

agree Alan Douglas (X)
25 mins
Thanks Alan
agree Jim Tucker (X) : o
37 mins
Thanks Jim
agree Transitwrite
2 hrs
Thanks
neutral Richard Nice : seems 'reasonable' enough but Wal S. seems to have done it ad hoc himself? Only French version is cited there
3 hrs
You could be right, though it is very similar to some other translations. See note that I am about to post.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
-1
1 hr

one does not/ we do not.. rationalize

on ne raisonne pas

not rationalize the need to/for..
Peer comment(s):

disagree Alan Douglas (X) : To rationalize/rationalise (= rationaliser, rendre rationnel) and raisonner (to reason) are not the same thing in French or English.
1 hr
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