Apr 21, 2010 06:55
14 yrs ago
1 viewer *
Japanese term
もとより
Japanese to English
Social Sciences
History
Full context:
「安藤氏の本拠地であった津軽半島は五つの交易路結節点に当たるという。すなわち、日本海沿岸にに沿って京都へ向かう路、太平洋沿岸に沿って鎌倉に向かう路、北海道から千島列島を経由してカムチャツカへ抜ける路、北海道から樺太へ抜ける路、そして日本海を横断して直接大陸に向かう路である」とする。
そのため、京都、鎌倉からの物資はもとより、西日本を経由して朝鮮や中国の製品が入り北回りのルートからは毛皮、海産物、鹿の綱などの北方の物産が集積した。
Does もとより here act to separate 「京都、鎌倉の物資」with 「朝鮮や中国の製品」(implying Kyoto/Kamakura goods are obviously from there and do not need explanation), or does it connect 「京都、鎌倉の物資」with 「朝鮮や中国の製品」saying that the origin of Kyoto/Kamakura goods are Korea/China via western Japan?
「安藤氏の本拠地であった津軽半島は五つの交易路結節点に当たるという。すなわち、日本海沿岸にに沿って京都へ向かう路、太平洋沿岸に沿って鎌倉に向かう路、北海道から千島列島を経由してカムチャツカへ抜ける路、北海道から樺太へ抜ける路、そして日本海を横断して直接大陸に向かう路である」とする。
そのため、京都、鎌倉からの物資はもとより、西日本を経由して朝鮮や中国の製品が入り北回りのルートからは毛皮、海産物、鹿の綱などの北方の物産が集積した。
Does もとより here act to separate 「京都、鎌倉の物資」with 「朝鮮や中国の製品」(implying Kyoto/Kamakura goods are obviously from there and do not need explanation), or does it connect 「京都、鎌倉の物資」with 「朝鮮や中国の製品」saying that the origin of Kyoto/Kamakura goods are Korea/China via western Japan?
Proposed translations
(English)
Proposed translations
+2
1 hr
Selected
to say nothing of … / not to mention …
「~はもとより」は、通常は、from the beginning(初めから)、originally(元来)、 of course(勿論)の意味がありますが、この場合は、「~は言うまでもなく、~はもちろんのこと、~は当然のこととして、~だけでなく」が近いと思います。
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Note added at 1 hr (2010-04-21 08:35:28 GMT)
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追記:
通常は、挿入句で使います。この場合の例(In this regard, not to mention [to say nothing of] the supplies, including goods and materials, from and Kyoto and Kamakura, …)
HTH
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Note added at 19 hrs (2010-04-22 02:41:56 GMT)
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typo: from Kyoto and Kamakura, …
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Note added at 1 hr (2010-04-21 08:35:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
追記:
通常は、挿入句で使います。この場合の例(In this regard, not to mention [to say nothing of] the supplies, including goods and materials, from and Kyoto and Kamakura, …)
HTH
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Note added at 19 hrs (2010-04-22 02:41:56 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
typo: from Kyoto and Kamakura, …
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Yumico Tanaka (X)
1 hr
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どうもありがとう。
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agree |
Carl Freire
: Better sample to get you thinking: "For that reason, goods from China [came via areas to the west such as Kyoto and Kamakura and accumulated in Tsugaru], to say nothing of goods from Kyoto and Kamakura [themselves]."
1 day 6 hrs
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TNKU!
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "ですよね。 I think in this context, "to say nothing of" works best.
ありがとうございました!"
2 hrs
of course / naturally
I think that your first interpretation (implying Kyoto/Kamakura goods are obviously from there and do not need explanation) is the meaning here. So, I've used "of course" for もとより.
A possible translation of the beginning of your sentence could go something like this:
Consequently, there were, of course, goods from Kyoto and Kamakura, but via Western Japan, products came in from Korea and China…..
もとより has the meaning of 初めから (from the beginning) but it also has the meaning of もちろん(勿論) which is "of course." (Shogakukan J-E Dictionary)
勿論 is defined in the Nelson’s Japanese Character Dictionary as: naturally, of course (in this order).
Also, そのため can be translated as “consequently.” (Shogakukan J-E Dictionary)
A possible translation of the beginning of your sentence could go something like this:
Consequently, there were, of course, goods from Kyoto and Kamakura, but via Western Japan, products came in from Korea and China…..
もとより has the meaning of 初めから (from the beginning) but it also has the meaning of もちろん(勿論) which is "of course." (Shogakukan J-E Dictionary)
勿論 is defined in the Nelson’s Japanese Character Dictionary as: naturally, of course (in this order).
Also, そのため can be translated as “consequently.” (Shogakukan J-E Dictionary)
5 hrs
not only...but also...
I hope the following is the author's point:
Andou clan had as many as five trade routes: The first one is with Kyoto, the second one is with Kamakura, the third and fourth one is with northern areas (カムチャツカ、樺太), and the last one is with Korea/China(大陸). Consequently, not only the items from Kyoto/Kamakura (implying it is obvious/ needless to say so because they are domestics) but also items from Korea/China went into Tsugaru via western Japan, their base, and so does ones from northern areas via northern route.
Although this translation cannot be found in any dictionaries, I guess it would suit best in this context.
Andou clan had as many as five trade routes: The first one is with Kyoto, the second one is with Kamakura, the third and fourth one is with northern areas (カムチャツカ、樺太), and the last one is with Korea/China(大陸). Consequently, not only the items from Kyoto/Kamakura (implying it is obvious/ needless to say so because they are domestics) but also items from Korea/China went into Tsugaru via western Japan, their base, and so does ones from northern areas via northern route.
Although this translation cannot be found in any dictionaries, I guess it would suit best in this context.
9 hrs
needless to say
Meaning of the word is already explained by other answerers. But in this case it (もとより) is used as emphasis.
To answer your following question directly:
Does もとより here act to separate 「京都、鎌倉の物資」with 「朝鮮や中国の製品」(implying Kyoto/Kamakura goods are obviously from there and do not need explanation), or does it connect 「京都、鎌倉の物資」with 「朝鮮や中国の製品」saying that the origin of Kyoto/Kamakura goods are Korea/China via western Japan?はもとより、西日本を経由して朝鮮や中国の製品が入り北回りのルートからは毛皮、海産物、鹿の綱などの北方の物産が集積した。
Your latter guess is closer to be correct, but not quite.
Roughly speaking what it says is ........
The Tsugaru Peninsula, the area ruled by Lord Andou is a trade center due to its geographic advantage to these five different trade routs. There trade goods from even China and Korea via Western Japan were amassed (or whatever word you prefer). This included, needless to say, goods from Kyoto and Kamakura areas.
Therefore, goods from China and Korea are not necessarily imported via Kyoto and Kamakura. Rather, they came to the Peninsula directly via these routs (cited in first part of your quote).
To answer your following question directly:
Does もとより here act to separate 「京都、鎌倉の物資」with 「朝鮮や中国の製品」(implying Kyoto/Kamakura goods are obviously from there and do not need explanation), or does it connect 「京都、鎌倉の物資」with 「朝鮮や中国の製品」saying that the origin of Kyoto/Kamakura goods are Korea/China via western Japan?はもとより、西日本を経由して朝鮮や中国の製品が入り北回りのルートからは毛皮、海産物、鹿の綱などの北方の物産が集積した。
Your latter guess is closer to be correct, but not quite.
Roughly speaking what it says is ........
The Tsugaru Peninsula, the area ruled by Lord Andou is a trade center due to its geographic advantage to these five different trade routs. There trade goods from even China and Korea via Western Japan were amassed (or whatever word you prefer). This included, needless to say, goods from Kyoto and Kamakura areas.
Therefore, goods from China and Korea are not necessarily imported via Kyoto and Kamakura. Rather, they came to the Peninsula directly via these routs (cited in first part of your quote).
10 hrs
use "as well as" for latter part
The literal meaning of もとより is "from the beginning/base/foundation" so you could translate it as "To start with..."
However, it's main purpose is to show that the first item(s) is "a given" or "of course" or "as a matter of course".
I usually turn this around in English to emphasize the first item(s) and to show that the latter item(s) are less of a given, use the connector "as well as" for the latter. I hope this makes sense.
However, it's main purpose is to show that the first item(s) is "a given" or "of course" or "as a matter of course".
I usually turn this around in English to emphasize the first item(s) and to show that the latter item(s) are less of a given, use the connector "as well as" for the latter. I hope this makes sense.
1 day 8 hrs
from the early stage/from the very start
もとより[固より|元より]
(初めから)from the beginning; (元来)originally; (勿論)of course
E-DIC、朝日出版社
http://bulo.hjenglish.com/question/17003/
(初めから)from the beginning; (元来)originally; (勿論)of course
E-DIC、朝日出版社
http://bulo.hjenglish.com/question/17003/
Discussion
Some people mentioned interpretations where "western Japan" referenced "Kyoto/Kamakura" - however, its difficult to imagine that Kamakura is considered 西日本. I mean, further west than Tsugaru sure, but...
I think Korean/Chinese goods were brought by Kyoto/Kamakura lines.
Let me explain my understading.
The foreign line was across the Japan sea and directly to the continent, therefore this line seems not dealing with western Japan.
On the other hand, the context said Korean/Chinese goods were brought via western Japan.
I agree that the foreign line may brought Korean/Chinese things, but for me, the author's meaning was to say that Tusugaru got domestic goods by Kyoto/Kamakura line, that's very natural, but moreover, they could also got the things even from Korea/China by the domestic lines via western Japan.
That's how I comprehend the sentence.