Sep 7, 2007 17:14
16 yrs ago
4 viewers *
Spanish term
forjado, labrado
Spanish to English
Art/Literary
Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting
silver work
This is a ficha for a small silver sculpture. Up to now, I've not had the word "labrado" appear in these descriptions, but in general, I've been struggling with pairings that appear to say the same thing, and this is another instance.
Can someone please tell me the difference between the two terms.
Combinación de plata forjada con una forma con textura. Forjado y labrado
Can someone please tell me the difference between the two terms.
Combinación de plata forjada con una forma con textura. Forjado y labrado
Proposed translations
(English)
4 | to forge (forjado), to tool (labrado) | John Rawlins |
5 +1 | forged, carved | LATAM Agent |
4 +1 | Forging, carving | Jorge Ochoa |
4 | wrought, hammered | psicutrinius |
4 | forged and crafted | bigedsenior |
Change log
Jun 22, 2008 20:51: psicutrinius changed "Field (specific)" from "Metallurgy / Casting" to "Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting"
Proposed translations
16 mins
Selected
to forge (forjado), to tool (labrado)
From Moliner
forjado, -a
1 Participio de «forjar[se]». ¤ adj. Se aplica al hierro trabajado a golpes en forja, a diferencia del fundido o colado.
2 m. Constr. Obra con que se hacen las separaciones entre los pisos de un edificio. Ô *Entramado.
labrar (del lat. «laboräre»)
1 tr. *Trabajar cualquier ÷material o elaborar o hacer cualquier producto u obra: ‘Labrar la cera [unas randas, la moneda]’; en particular, tratándose de la *madera, la *piedra, las *piedras preciosas o los *metales, o de hacer labores con materias textiles: ‘Labrar la seda [el oro]. Labrar de piedra un edificio’.
2 En lenguaje corriente, se emplea sólo con el significado de hacer labores o adornos en relieve en la ÷*madera, el *metal, el *cuero, etc.: ‘Labrar el metal a martillo’. Þ Cantear, esculpir, grabar, relabrar, tallar.
3 Edificar.
4 *Cultivar la ÷tierra.
5 En sentido restringido, *ararla o *cavarla.
6 Cultivar una ÷tierra ajena, por ejemplo como *colono.
7 Se aplica a palabras como «÷felicidad, desgracia, ruina, porvenir» y semejantes con el significado de «laborar por» o «*hacer»: ‘Está labrando su perdición’. Se usa también como reflexivo: ‘Labrarse un porvenir’.
8 intr. Causar una cosa impresión en el ánimo de alguien: ‘Labrar en el espíritu’.
2 Catálogo
Ablaquear, acoyuntar, adocilar, agostar, aladrar, alomar, alombar, alzar, amelgar, aparar, *arar, aricar, arrejacar, arromper, artigar, asurcar, atetillar, barbechar, binar, cabecear, cachar, carpentear, *cavar, cohechar, conrear, corar, cruzar, cuartar, desfondar, desrastrojar, desvolver, entrecavar, escaliar, escarificar, escavanar, excavar, faenar, forcatear, huachar, jadiar, laborear, lampear, layar, rajar los lomos, mantornar, panificar, quintar, ralbar, rearar, rebinar, recavar, rejacar, romper, roturar, rozar, sobrearar, subsolar, surcar, terciar, volver. Ó Besana, caballón, loba, lomo, *surco. Ó Abesana, besana, labor, laborío, labradura, obrada, peonada, peonería, peonía. Ó Arada, bina, rebina, renda, roturación, tercia, terciazón, vuelta. Ó Agarrado, duro. Ó Ahurragado, aurragado, lleco. Ó Chorra, empina. Ó Huebra. Ó Relabrar. Ó *Agricultura. *Arado. *Cavar.
From Oxford
labrado -da adj
a ‹ madera › carved; ‹ piedra › cut, carved
b ‹ cuero › tooled
c (Tex) patterned
forjar ÞA1 vt
a ‹ utensilio/pieza › to forge; Þhierro
b ‹ porvenir › to shape, forge; ‹ plan › to make; ‹ ilusiones/esperanzas › to build up
c ‹ nación/bases › to create; ‹ amistad/alianza › to forge
forjarse v pron ‹ porvenir › to shape, forge; ‹ ilusiones › to build up; forjarse un camino to forge a way for oneself
forjado, -a
1 Participio de «forjar[se]». ¤ adj. Se aplica al hierro trabajado a golpes en forja, a diferencia del fundido o colado.
2 m. Constr. Obra con que se hacen las separaciones entre los pisos de un edificio. Ô *Entramado.
labrar (del lat. «laboräre»)
1 tr. *Trabajar cualquier ÷material o elaborar o hacer cualquier producto u obra: ‘Labrar la cera [unas randas, la moneda]’; en particular, tratándose de la *madera, la *piedra, las *piedras preciosas o los *metales, o de hacer labores con materias textiles: ‘Labrar la seda [el oro]. Labrar de piedra un edificio’.
2 En lenguaje corriente, se emplea sólo con el significado de hacer labores o adornos en relieve en la ÷*madera, el *metal, el *cuero, etc.: ‘Labrar el metal a martillo’. Þ Cantear, esculpir, grabar, relabrar, tallar.
3 Edificar.
4 *Cultivar la ÷tierra.
5 En sentido restringido, *ararla o *cavarla.
6 Cultivar una ÷tierra ajena, por ejemplo como *colono.
7 Se aplica a palabras como «÷felicidad, desgracia, ruina, porvenir» y semejantes con el significado de «laborar por» o «*hacer»: ‘Está labrando su perdición’. Se usa también como reflexivo: ‘Labrarse un porvenir’.
8 intr. Causar una cosa impresión en el ánimo de alguien: ‘Labrar en el espíritu’.
2 Catálogo
Ablaquear, acoyuntar, adocilar, agostar, aladrar, alomar, alombar, alzar, amelgar, aparar, *arar, aricar, arrejacar, arromper, artigar, asurcar, atetillar, barbechar, binar, cabecear, cachar, carpentear, *cavar, cohechar, conrear, corar, cruzar, cuartar, desfondar, desrastrojar, desvolver, entrecavar, escaliar, escarificar, escavanar, excavar, faenar, forcatear, huachar, jadiar, laborear, lampear, layar, rajar los lomos, mantornar, panificar, quintar, ralbar, rearar, rebinar, recavar, rejacar, romper, roturar, rozar, sobrearar, subsolar, surcar, terciar, volver. Ó Besana, caballón, loba, lomo, *surco. Ó Abesana, besana, labor, laborío, labradura, obrada, peonada, peonería, peonía. Ó Arada, bina, rebina, renda, roturación, tercia, terciazón, vuelta. Ó Agarrado, duro. Ó Ahurragado, aurragado, lleco. Ó Chorra, empina. Ó Huebra. Ó Relabrar. Ó *Agricultura. *Arado. *Cavar.
From Oxford
labrado -da adj
a ‹ madera › carved; ‹ piedra › cut, carved
b ‹ cuero › tooled
c (Tex) patterned
forjar ÞA1 vt
a ‹ utensilio/pieza › to forge; Þhierro
b ‹ porvenir › to shape, forge; ‹ plan › to make; ‹ ilusiones/esperanzas › to build up
c ‹ nación/bases › to create; ‹ amistad/alianza › to forge
forjarse v pron ‹ porvenir › to shape, forge; ‹ ilusiones › to build up; forjarse un camino to forge a way for oneself
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "John: thanks for all your thoughts on this! Unfortunately, for a variety of reasons, I can't add any notes to the glossary. I was on a very tight deadline, and I used "hand-tooled" but the more I think about Ed's answer (crafted), I'm wondering if that might have been a simple way out -- although for "fichas técnicas" it doesn't tell the read much! Anyway, points to you!"
+1
35 mins
forged, carved
Plata labrada = Fashion silver
Labrar plata = to fashion silver
Others: Carve, shape, sculpt.
http://www.ci.redmond.wa.us/eConnect/Activities/ActivitiesCo...
Learn the fundamentals used to fashion silver, copper and brass wire (and gold too) into stunning bracelets, necklaces, earrings and more.
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Note added at 36 mins (2007-09-07 17:50:46 GMT)
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Forjado y Labrado
Labrar plata = to fashion silver
Others: Carve, shape, sculpt.
http://www.ci.redmond.wa.us/eConnect/Activities/ActivitiesCo...
Learn the fundamentals used to fashion silver, copper and brass wire (and gold too) into stunning bracelets, necklaces, earrings and more.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 36 mins (2007-09-07 17:50:46 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Forjado y Labrado
Reference:
+1
14 mins
Forging, carving
This are production processes or artcraft
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Note added at 16 mins (2007-09-07 17:30:24 GMT)
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forging is at high temperatures, carving is with metal insprument or wood instrument
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Note added at 1 hr (2007-09-07 18:55:19 GMT)
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Forging can only be don when the metal piece is at high temperatures
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Note added at 16 mins (2007-09-07 17:30:24 GMT)
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forging is at high temperatures, carving is with metal insprument or wood instrument
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2007-09-07 18:55:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Forging can only be don when the metal piece is at high temperatures
4 hrs
wrought, hammered
Enough "ask asker" notes:
"forjar" involves beating AND heat (as much heat as necessary to bring the metal to a plastic enough state) . In English, that translates as "wrought" (forjado a mano), or "forged" (inside a jig or a die, and generally for series production).
However, both silver and gold are plastic enough ("malleable" is the term), in a normal, cold state, to lend themselves to be worked by hammering.
Therefore, I guess that the author means "hammered" when he says "labrado", and "wrought" when he says "forjado". I assume, of course, that he is not working to a precise (involving any series and dimensional interchangeability). In this case, (1) hammering would be definitely ruled out and (b), the pieces woud be forged, not wrought (because a die or jig would be needed).
"forjar" involves beating AND heat (as much heat as necessary to bring the metal to a plastic enough state) . In English, that translates as "wrought" (forjado a mano), or "forged" (inside a jig or a die, and generally for series production).
However, both silver and gold are plastic enough ("malleable" is the term), in a normal, cold state, to lend themselves to be worked by hammering.
Therefore, I guess that the author means "hammered" when he says "labrado", and "wrought" when he says "forjado". I assume, of course, that he is not working to a precise (involving any series and dimensional interchangeability). In this case, (1) hammering would be definitely ruled out and (b), the pieces woud be forged, not wrought (because a die or jig would be needed).
Note from asker:
psicutrinius: Thank you so much for all the information you shared in the "Ask the Asker" box. It helped me arrive at the decision that "labrar" in the glossary that I noted was indeed used really just to mean "worked". I used John's answer "hand-tooled" because I feel I needed something more specific than just worked or crafted for labrar since these are "fichas técnicas". Anyway, I wish I could split the points! |
8 hrs
forged and crafted
'crafted' covers a multitude of sins....or forged and hand-worked..
Note from asker:
Ed: I ended up giving the points to John, because under pressure, I sent in document with "hand-tooled" but I am going to write my edited and ask him what he thinks of "crafted". I hesitate to use it in "fichas técnicas" precisely for the reason you cited -- it could mean anything. But since I don't have photos, and the "labrado" can mean so many things, maybe that's the safest choice. Thanks again for your suggestion! |
Discussion
labrar.(Del lat. laborāre).
1. tr. Trabajar una materia reduciéndola al estado o forma conveniente para usarla. Labrar la madera. Labrar plata. Therefore...
Wrought (fundido) is a process to pour the molten metal into a cast (molde) resulting in "casting", which could also be forged after.
The subject's glossary may well be at odds with common acceptance of the meanings.
ALSO I was leaning toward "hand-tooled" from John's answer. Does anyone think that's wrong? THANK YOU ALL, KUDOZers!!!!
(www.dictionary.com)
adj.
1. Put together; created: a carefully wrought plan.
2. Shaped by hammering with tools. Used chiefly of metals or metalwork.
FORJADO. Esta técnica, también es conocida como LABRADO y consiste en trabajar la pieza a golpes que la van configurando.
So this is the source of my concern. If "forjado" = labrado, how can one be forged/wrought and the other just "carved"? Throughout this book, I've translated "cincelar" and "grabar" as "engraved" but isn't "carved" just a synonym for engraving? Then there's the problem I'm still having with "rechazado" which I understand to be CHASED, but some people say that CINCELAR = CHASED. I'm so confused!!