Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

Deficits indemnites pour conges a payer (please!)

English translation:

Non-deductible losses, indemnities for paid leave and provisions

Added to glossary by HelenG
Jan 16, 2007 19:22
17 yrs ago
23 viewers *
French term

Deficits indemnites pour conges a payer (please!)

French to English Bus/Financial Finance (general) FINANCIAL STATEMENTS
I am a little confused - the whole phrase is:
"deficits indemnites pour conges a payer et provisions non-deductibles and it figures as the heading for a table in the financial statements adjoined to the income statement and balance sheet. I am presuming that deficits and indemnites are seperate and that this is "losses, holiday allowances and non-dedubtible provisions". Could anyone confirm whether this is correct. ?
Thanks for your help.

Discussion

HelenG (asker) Jan 21, 2007:
Thanks Tony - a little bit on the tired side this morning!
Tony M Jan 21, 2007:
Helen, do you think it would be a good idea to edit the glossary entry to make it more helpful for future users?
Bourth (X) Jan 17, 2007:
Do the items in the table shed no light on how this breaks down?
Rob Grayson Jan 16, 2007:
Helen, your reading of this makes sense to me and I'm struggling to see any other....

Proposed translations

+1
1 day 1 hr
Selected

Could this be three non-deductible items?

Another idea... maybe the "non déductibles" applies to the whole line, as apparently the table is to do with taxes? Which would give you something like "Non-deductible losses, indemnities for paid leave and provisions".
Losses and provisions can certainly be deductible or non-deductible for tax purposes depending on their nature or amount.
Offhand I can't think why paid leave indemnities would be non-deductible, unless maybe the company is paying more than it has to or offering extra non-compulsory paid leave that the tax man considers excessive (no far off what Charlie imagines above, although I'm no longer talking about a deficit). But it seems a potentially plausible solution to the problem! (I tried to get online access to the form as identified by Charlie but had no luck)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 days (2007-01-22 08:28:40 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

If anyone's still interested, I think I may have worked out why these paid leave indemnities would be non-deductible : the fact that it's "indemnités pour congés A PAYER" rather than "congés PAYES" suggests that they will only be deductible in the period when the leave is actually taken, and it hasn't yet been taken.
Peer comment(s):

agree Tony M : Well done!
3 days 13 hrs
and thanks to you for having tracked down the info posted in your answer
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "This is the solution that I went for in the end as it did seem to fit the context best. Thanks for your help and thank you to everyone else for your input."
2 hrs

Deficits resulting from paid holidays due

I think this is probably all one item, not two or more items lumped together with the comma missing.
Something went wrong...
15 hrs

shortfall in provision for paid holiday leave

"A provision for paid leave, however, would come under working capital."

(Page down.)

http://209.85.129.104/search?q=cache:L6NissfcBegJ:www.vernim...

Vernimmen is brilliant, actually, for finance/accounting stuff, check out his glossary.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 hrs (2007-01-17 11:13:40 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

PLEASE NOTE: SHOULD READ "PAID LEAVE" AND NOT "PAID HOLIDAY LEAVE".

In many countries paid leave includes paid paternity/maternity leave, paid study leave, and so on and so forth.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 hrs (2007-01-17 11:14:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

This is assuming that there is no missing comma after "déficits".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 hrs (2007-01-17 11:15:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

(Provisions enable companies to carry forward profit to the next fiscal year in a fairly sneaky way, with the aim being to avoid company profit tax.)
Something went wrong...
+2
17 hrs

Pointers??

Go on google.FR (not com or co.uk), and google just "indemnites pour conges a payer" - there's plenty of hits.

The whole phrase (i.e including the deficits bit, and you're right, it IS followed by a comma in real life) is a cerfa form, number 10952

Note (to everyone!) that conges is not JUST holidays - it's also used for sick and maternity leave. Now, as in the UK, the employer has a statutory obligation to pay these (sick and maternity, I mean). In the UK, the employer is refunded a certain minimum amount of this money (SMP, SSP). I would imagine that the same applies in France. And I'm guessing that this form may have something to do with the amount that the company can claim back in terms of the equivalent of SMP & SSP paid out, OR is something to do with the difference between the statutory minimum and the amount of maternity/sick pay the company ACTUALLY paid to its employees.
For example, it's possible (I'm REALLY guessing here) that if an employer paid someone 10,000 euros in sick pay but the legal minimum would have been 6,000 euros, then that 4k euros could be a "deficit"??

just a pointer
Peer comment(s):

agree Tony M : Well done, Charlie!
3 days 22 hrs
agree La Classe
2035 days
Something went wrong...
+1
37 mins
French term (edited): Déficits indemnités pour congés à payer

Shortfall in compensation payments for holidays paid in lieu

Helen, I really am guessing here, and I must emphasize I'm in no way an accounting expert!

It just seems to me that there is an explanation that does not involve assuming a typo / missing punctuation.

Of course, it all depends on where and how this appears in the balance sheet.

But supposing this firm has been so busy, they have had to ask staff to work some of their time off, in return for payment; but that insufficient provision had been made for this. The staff would have to be paid anyway, so at some point, there would be an item for the overspend (i.e. shortfall in the provision)

I suspect that the rest, coming after the "et" is probably not qualifed by the same "déficits", but I don't know enough about accounting to know whether this is likely or not.

It seems to me that your solution of "déficits, ..." involves an unlikely marriage of very global concepts (losses as a whole) and very much more specific items. But again, I'm no expert in this field!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 days (2007-01-21 11:05:27 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Certainly a lot easier now we have the error-free text, and thanks to CB's detective work.

Here is the full text of the notice that explains how to fill in this form, from which it is clear that it is indeed 3 non-decutible items, as Buzzy so correctly said:

DÉFICITS, INDEMNITÉS POUR CONGÉS A PAYER ET PROVISIONS NON DÉDUCTIBLES N° 2058-B
I - A. Déficits ordinaires : (impôt sur les sociétés)
Col. 3 : il s’agit de la fraction des déficits imputée sur le bénéfice de l’exercice (art. 209 I du CGI) ;
Col. 4 : il s’agit de la fraction des déficits qui n’a pu être imputée et qui demeure reportable sur les bénéfices
des exercices suivants (art. 209. I et 220 quinquies du CGI).
Porter sur cette ligne le montant du déficit mentionné à la ligne X O du tableau 2058-A.
I - B. Amortissements réputés différés
Amortissements réputés différés :
Porter sur cette ligne le montant des dotations de l’exercice susceptibles d’être admises au régime des amortissements
réputés différés après application, le cas échéant, du report en arrière des déficits.
Amortissements réputés différés créés. Il s’agit du montant figurant ligne XK du tableau n° 2058-A.
Amortissements réputés différés restant à reporter :
Il s’agit des amortissements réputés différés reportables en avant.
II - Indemnités de congés à payer, charges sociales et fiscales correspondantes :
Ce cadre ne concerne que les entreprises qui relèvent du régime de droit commun applicable pour les exercices
clos à compter du 31 décembre 1987 (cf. supra p. 4 cas particuliers).
III - Provisions et charges à payer, non déductibles pour l’assiette de l’impôt :
Indemnités de congés à payer, charges sociales et fiscales correspondantes. Ces lignes devront être servies par les entreprises
placées sous le régime optionnel prévu à l’article 39.1.1° bis, 1er alinéa du CGI (cf. supra p. 4, cas particuliers).
– Provisions pour risques et charges :
• La provision pour risques constituée dans le cadre de l’évaluation des participations selon la méthode de mise
en équivalence n’est pas déductible.
• Les provisions pour pertes afférentes à des opérations en cours à la clôture de l’exercice ne sont déductibles
qu’à concurrence de la perte égale à l’excédent du coût de revient des travaux exécutés sur le prix de vente
de ces travaux (éventuellement révisé) (art. 39-1-5°, 1° alinéa du CGI).
• Les provisions pour pertes futures sur stocks ne sont pas déductibles (39-1-5°, 1° alinéa du CGI).
– Provisions pour dépréciation : la dépréciation des titres évalués selon la méthode de mise en équivalence n’est
retenue qu’à hauteur de son montant qui est calculé selon les règles de l’article 39.1.5° du CGI. Le solde n’est pas
déductible.
Les provisions pour dépréciation afférentes à des titres précédemment transférés du compte titre de participation à
un autre compte du bilan ou inversement, dont la valeur comptable est supérieure à la valeur fiscale, doivent être réintégrées
à concurrence de la différence existant à la date du transfert, entre leur valeur comptable et leur valeur fiscale.
Peer comment(s):

agree Charlie Bavington : Many hands light work are making :-)
4 days
Thanks, CB! And "Missing comma much confusion is causing"!
Something went wrong...
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search