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64.3 and 65.4 shares
get my medicine checked
Dec 15, 2006 06:43
17 yrs ago
2 viewers *
English term

grammaticality judgment

English Science Linguistics syntax
I believe that the sentence below is not fully grammatical and would like to know what others think.
Thank you!

***Professor Smith’s focus for this class was syntax and started class by eliciting a definition of syntax from the students.***
Responses
4 +5 Professor Smith’s focus for this class was syntax. He started class by eliciting a ....
4 +9 It's missing a "he"
4 +4 See comments below...

Discussion

transparx (asker) Dec 15, 2006:
of course, "accept it"...
transparx (asker) Dec 15, 2006:
What do you mean? It was very obvious to me --so much so that I had edited it before even asking. As I said, I simply wanted to know whether there was anyone at all who would accept, or fail to notice the problem. Please, don't make assumptions without knowing the whole story!
Richard Benham Dec 15, 2006:
If it really were as obvious as all that to you, you wouldn't be asking if it's correct. It is dead wrong, and would be rejected even by a very non-fussy native speaker. It is almost certainly a typing omission rather than sloppy writing.
transparx (asker) Dec 15, 2006:
That's obvious, Richard, but the question is, is it correct? What is its degree of acceptability? From a strictly technical, structural point of view, it is not correct, as "Prof. Smith" fails to take scope over the predicate. This is out of the question. Yes, perhaps it was an oversight, perhaps it's just sloppy writing...the thing is, this piece was full of errors and inaccuracies, so I just wanted to know what others thought.
Richard Benham Dec 15, 2006:
If you leave out the subject in the second of two coordinate clauses, the understood subject MUST be the subject of the first clause: in this case, "Professor Smith's FOCUS"...but the professor, not his focus, started the class. Doubtless an oversight.
transparx (asker) Dec 15, 2006:
Yes, of course, "he" is often best omitted if it properly refers back to an antecedent. Anyway, what you all have said lessens my worries. I asked because this was written by a native speaker (a professor) who was writing a fairly formal piece.
David Moore (X) Dec 15, 2006:
Forget the subject being the last element in my previous note; an example might be: "He drove up to the traffic lights which were showing red, and (he) restarted too quickly"
David Moore (X) Dec 15, 2006:
To me, it's just a mistake, such as very many might make. There are constructions where, if the subject is the last element in the first half of such a sentence, it would be acceptable to omit the"he", but definitely not here.
transparx (asker) Dec 15, 2006:
Thank you! Given that you agree that the sentence is ungrammatical as it stands, why do you think anyone would leave out the pronoun "he"?
transparx (asker) Dec 15, 2006:
Thank you, Bettina. Actually, what I'd like to know is whether native speakers find it acceptable at all, or whether they would all suggest revising it.

Responses

+5
9 mins
Selected

Professor Smith’s focus for this class was syntax. He started class by eliciting a ....

"and" is used in a list to connect several items of the same level, for example verbs or objects or subjects of a sentence. However, in this sentence the verb in the first part of the sentence (to be) has another subject (focus) than the second verb (started), which, presumably, is Prof. Smith. I would suggest making two sentences instead.

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Note added at 37 mins (2006-12-15 07:21:02 GMT)
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Maybe it's simply a mistake or the writer can't write well.
Peer comment(s):
agree ErichEko ⟹⭐
17 mins
Thanks, Erich!
agree Shera Lyn Parpia
1 hr
Thanks, Shera!
agree Jack Doughty
1 hr
Thanks, Jack!
agree Vicky Papaprodromou
4 hrs
Thanks, Vicky!
agree Richard Benham : It's not a bad idea to make it two sentences, but it's not compulsory.
5 hrs
Thanks, Richard, I agree. To decide whether it should be 1 or 2 sentences, more context would help. If we want to say it was customary with Smith, then I think 2 sentences are better, with a "usually" thrown in. If it's a narrative, then 1 would be better
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Let me clarify (if nothing else, in order to correct Richard Benham's insinuation) that I never had doubts as to whether this sentence was correct or not. As I said above, the subject must have scope over its predicate, but, as it stands, "Prof. Smith" has scope only over "focus for this class." The phrase that has scope over the predicate is, as some have noted, "Prof. Smith's focus for this class," which, as a result, qualifies as the subject. This leads to ungrammaticality. I asked because I wanted to know whether this was a "mistake" that some native speakers might make (that is, an error of the same type as that found in the phrase "between you and I," for instance). In other words, this was an attempt to elicit an unbiased response from native speakers. But I apologize...perhaps I should have asked in the forums. Thank you!"
+9
28 mins

It's missing a "he"

Join the two!

A purist will in fact claim that the subject in the two halves of the sentence IS the same - the said Prof. Smith, and that it is therefore also grammatically permitted to use the "and" in this case.
It sounds better all in one anyway - to my ear, it's a bit jerky otherwise - but should not be preceded by a comma.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 30 mins (2006-12-15 07:13:56 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

IOW, it should read:
"...syntax and he started..."
Peer comment(s):
agree Tony M : Quite!
3 mins
agree Bettina Grieser Johns : Definitely another possibility - in this case "and" joins two independent sentences.
11 mins
agree Robert Fox
1 hr
agree kmtext
1 hr
agree Alison Jenner
2 hrs
agree Vicky Papaprodromou
4 hrs
agree Richard Benham : You are dead wrong about the subject being the same: in the first clause it's the focus and in the second (one presumes and hopes) it's Prof. Smith....
5 hrs
Technically, you may be right, but nevertheless, that's a little heavy, Richard; at least it's "Prof. Smith's focus"...
agree Alexander Demyanov
7 hrs
agree Alfa Trans (X)
12 hrs
Something went wrong...
+4
29 mins

See comments below...

Professor Smith’s focus for this class was syntax and **he** started **the** class by eliciting a definition of syntax from the students.

Taking the sentence as it stands, which basically could work fine, it definitely needs the "he" after "and" in order to keep Prof. Smith as the subject of "started" (otherwise it would read as if the subject was "focus".

The addition of "the" before class might be more debatable; to my UK ears, it sounds distinctly odd to leave it out; but I have a feeling that this usage might be acceptable in the US, where I have more often heard "class" used without an article (in this particular sense).

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 39 mins (2006-12-15 07:22:52 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Probably a simple error of omission, or more likely, the sentence was edited: perhaps it originally read something like "Prof. Smith chose 'syntax' as his focus and started the class by..." — the pitfalls of editing using modern word processors!
Peer comment(s):
agree Vicky Papaprodromou
4 hrs
Efharisto, Vicky!
agree Richard Benham : Yes, maybe the author should have paid more attention in Professor Smith's class! (I'm sure even you Poms say "in class", but just without a preposition it sounds odd to me too!) Den katalavaino Ellinika!
5 hrs
Thanks, RB!
agree Hamid Sadeghieh : "started" in the 2nd clause demands an agent in the subject place and "focus", being both the subject and the theme of the 1st clause, lacks the semantic requirments of an agent that can "start" sth.
22 hrs
Thanks, Hamid! I'll take your word for all that!
agree Refugio
2 days 4 hrs
Thanks, Ruth!
Something went wrong...
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