Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Russian term or phrase:
Юродивые
English translation:
God's fools
Added to glossary by
Valery Kaminski
Oct 29, 2006 09:26
17 yrs ago
Russian term
Юродивые
Russian to English
Other
General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
From an interview discussing "Outsiders" and their art. Dictionary definitions don't seem to work very well for this one.
Это внутренняя энергия, которая выплескивается на холст, на дерево.
- Эти выплески - выплески безумия?
- Безумные - самые свободные люди.
- Юродивые?
- Среди них тоже есть безумцы. Но юродство привязано к религии, а у каждого из аутсайдеров своя религия.
Это внутренняя энергия, которая выплескивается на холст, на дерево.
- Эти выплески - выплески безумия?
- Безумные - самые свободные люди.
- Юродивые?
- Среди них тоже есть безумцы. Но юродство привязано к религии, а у каждого из аутсайдеров своя религия.
Proposed translations
(English)
Proposed translations
+3
43 mins
Selected
God's fools
The context suggests the synonin here is also "блаженный".
God's fool can be used for both.
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Note added at 4 час (2006-10-29 13:57:53 GMT)
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Yes. In old times in Russia such people were considered to be "touched by God" and treated with some respect - Vasiliy Blajenniy, for example
God's fool can be used for both.
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Note added at 4 час (2006-10-29 13:57:53 GMT)
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Yes. In old times in Russia such people were considered to be "touched by God" and treated with some respect - Vasiliy Blajenniy, for example
Note from asker:
as in "touched by God"? |
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
+1
7 mins
zealots
I would say this is very close to zealot, or at least that would be a nice way of translating it, since zealotry was also originally connected with religion.
ЮРОДИВЫЙ и (обл.) ЮРОДИВЫЙ, юродивая, юродивое.
1. Глуповатый, чудаковатый, безумный. У каждого свой сказ про юродивого помещика. Некрасов.
2. в знач. сущ. юродивый, юродивого, м. Христианский аскет-безумец или принявший вид безумца и обладающий, по мнению верующих, даром прорицания (церк., религ.). Христа ради или во Христе юродивый. Молись за меня богу, юродивый! Пушкин.
ЮРОДСТВО, юродства, ср.
1. только ед. Намеренное старание казаться юродивым, глупым, безумным.
2. Бессмысленный, безумный, глупый поступок, какой мог бы совершить только юродивый человек. Бросьте ваши юродства! Говорите без юродства и не начинайте оскорблением домашних ваших. Достоевский.
ЮРОДИВЫЙ и (обл.) ЮРОДИВЫЙ, юродивая, юродивое.
1. Глуповатый, чудаковатый, безумный. У каждого свой сказ про юродивого помещика. Некрасов.
2. в знач. сущ. юродивый, юродивого, м. Христианский аскет-безумец или принявший вид безумца и обладающий, по мнению верующих, даром прорицания (церк., религ.). Христа ради или во Христе юродивый. Молись за меня богу, юродивый! Пушкин.
ЮРОДСТВО, юродства, ср.
1. только ед. Намеренное старание казаться юродивым, глупым, безумным.
2. Бессмысленный, безумный, глупый поступок, какой мог бы совершить только юродивый человек. Бросьте ваши юродства! Говорите без юродства и не начинайте оскорблением домашних ваших. Достоевский.
Note from asker:
From Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary: ZEALOT n. 1. a member of a fanatical sect arising in Judea during the first century A.D. and militantly opposing the Roman domination of Palestine 2: a zealous person; esp: a fanatical partisan ZEALOTRY n. excess of zeal: fanatical devotion. |
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Dorene Cornwell
: This would play best to English-speaking readers not familiar with the Russian tradition of "holy fools." I could think of ways to use this and still keep the subsequent references to religion.
13 hrs
|
Thanks, Dorene, yes, I must confess I thought this to be one of my better ideas, especially considering the context. A literal rendering with something like "holy fools" would made absolutely no sense in a discussion about craziness and free people.
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disagree |
Sophia Hundt (X)
: This seems really wrong. Definitely not what it is.To me, "yurodiviy" suggests meekness and humbleness, while zealot suggests agression and religious terrorism.
20 hrs
|
yes, but it also suggests craziness - first and foremost in this context where they are talking about lunacy, not meekness and humbleness. You can't juxtapose "insane" (безумный) with "meekness", it wouldn't make any sense. See dialogue in question.
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agree |
Mikhail Kropotov
1 day 1 hr
|
It's more on the creative end, but I thought it could work. Thanks for the support, though thanks even more for your assistance with my own questions!!!
|
+2
15 mins
fools for Christ's sake
1 Corinthians 4:10 (KJV)
We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised.
The Russian Orthodox Church believes these words of Apostle Paul are the basis of yurodivyy's' mission.
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Note added at 26 mins (2006-10-29 09:52:23 GMT)
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Other translations of the same verse from the Gospels
fools for Christ
fools because of Christ
Messiah's misfits
fools on account of Christ and for His sake
Our dedication to Christ makes us look like fools
Because of Christ we are thought of as fools
We are thought of as fools because of Christ
We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised.
The Russian Orthodox Church believes these words of Apostle Paul are the basis of yurodivyy's' mission.
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Note added at 26 mins (2006-10-29 09:52:23 GMT)
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Other translations of the same verse from the Gospels
fools for Christ
fools because of Christ
Messiah's misfits
fools on account of Christ and for His sake
Our dedication to Christ makes us look like fools
Because of Christ we are thought of as fools
We are thought of as fools because of Christ
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Natalie
: "God's fool"
29 mins
|
thank you
|
|
agree |
Anneta Vysotskaya
: Fools for God's sake (I would not use "for Christ" in this context)
11 hrs
|
-1
57 mins
whacky
.
Peer comment(s):
disagree |
Sophia Hundt (X)
: not the same, not the right shade of meaning.
19 hrs
|
-2
8 hrs
meek/poor in spirit
Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Verse 3); Blessed are the meek: for they shall posses the land. ...
Catholic encyclopedia - English translation = "блаженны юродивые"
"Meek" is an equivalent I believe of the word as it stands in your context.
Catholic encyclopedia - English translation = "блаженны юродивые"
"Meek" is an equivalent I believe of the word as it stands in your context.
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Blithe
: the Russian text says "блаженны нищие духом" и "блаженны кроткие", but both are not the same as юродивые
21 mins
|
good point
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disagree |
Evgenia Mussuri
: I do not think meek would work here, it implies some connotations that are not necessarily true to the outsiders.
25 mins
|
maybe... well i tried
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disagree |
Sophia Hundt (X)
: more of a theological notion,while the Russian actually means "retarded", doesn't it? I.e., holy fool.
12 hrs
|
it clearly says in the source text that "yurodstvo privyazano k religii"
|
+4
8 hrs
fools in Christ/Holy fools
It knows also strange and unwonted paths to sanctification: that, for instance, of the 'fools in Christ', committing extravagant acts that their spiritual ...
www.orthodoxinfo.com/general/lossky_intro.aspx
The Holy fools, or fools in Christ, were itinerant ascetics who enjoyed great popularity among the ordinary people of Russia, many of them being revered as saints.
www.geocities.com/athens/delphi/6422/Page2.html
Before the nineteenth century Russian jurodivye (or fools in Christ) were described mostly in hagiographic materials and in travelogues of foreign visitors ...
aatseel.org/program/aatseel/2002/abstracts/Kobets.html
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Note added at 8 hrs (2006-10-29 17:54:19 GMT)
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the last link refers to an interesting article:
IURODSTVO
http://www.slavdom.com/index.php?id=35
www.orthodoxinfo.com/general/lossky_intro.aspx
The Holy fools, or fools in Christ, were itinerant ascetics who enjoyed great popularity among the ordinary people of Russia, many of them being revered as saints.
www.geocities.com/athens/delphi/6422/Page2.html
Before the nineteenth century Russian jurodivye (or fools in Christ) were described mostly in hagiographic materials and in travelogues of foreign visitors ...
aatseel.org/program/aatseel/2002/abstracts/Kobets.html
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Note added at 8 hrs (2006-10-29 17:54:19 GMT)
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the last link refers to an interesting article:
IURODSTVO
http://www.slavdom.com/index.php?id=35
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Anton Agafonov (X)
1 hr
|
thank you!
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agree |
Sophia Hundt (X)
: I would say holy fools, but fools in christ may seem misleading and confusing, I think.
12 hrs
|
thank you
|
|
agree |
Anastasia Novoselova
: Holy fools (e.g., http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jim_forest/fools.ht... IMHO, the reference to Chist makes it less of a derrogatory expression, which it is in Russian.
16 hrs
|
thank you
|
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agree |
Alexander Demyanov
: Holy
22 hrs
|
thank you
|
15 hrs
For what it's worth...
Idiot is used in English versions of both the poem and the libretto
BORIS GODUNOV
A Drama in Verse
By ALEXANDER PUSHKIN
Rendered into English verse by Alfred Hayes
Boyars, The People, Inspectors, Officers, Attendants, Guests,
a Boy in attendance on Prince Shuisky, a Catholic Priest, a
Polish Noble, a Poet, *****an Idiot*****, a Beggar, Gentlemen, Peasants,
Guards, Russian, Polish, and German Soldiers, a Russian
Prisoner of War, Boys, an old Woman, Ladies, Serving-women
http://forum.stereophile.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number...
Valery Gergiev, 1869 version
Part Four opens with a return of the Russian People Motif, and it has ***the requisite Idiot**** describing what has happened and what will be, if you will, while he implores the Tsar to kill the urchins who torment the Idiot, just like he killed the tsarevich. Ah, what Russian tragedy is complete without the ***Holy Fool***?
BORIS GODUNOV
A Drama in Verse
By ALEXANDER PUSHKIN
Rendered into English verse by Alfred Hayes
Boyars, The People, Inspectors, Officers, Attendants, Guests,
a Boy in attendance on Prince Shuisky, a Catholic Priest, a
Polish Noble, a Poet, *****an Idiot*****, a Beggar, Gentlemen, Peasants,
Guards, Russian, Polish, and German Soldiers, a Russian
Prisoner of War, Boys, an old Woman, Ladies, Serving-women
http://forum.stereophile.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number...
Valery Gergiev, 1869 version
Part Four opens with a return of the Russian People Motif, and it has ***the requisite Idiot**** describing what has happened and what will be, if you will, while he implores the Tsar to kill the urchins who torment the Idiot, just like he killed the tsarevich. Ah, what Russian tragedy is complete without the ***Holy Fool***?
15 hrs
Possessed
I believe here (discussing art) the Russian Юродивые is used more like "одержимость, одержимые" - people possessed \ obsessed with\by some ideas.
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