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σκέτο/ασυνόδευτο φαγητό
Ειδικός παθολόγος

Glossary entry

Greek term or phrase:

σκιώδης (σκαιώδης) συμπεριφορά

English translation:

rude / brutal behaviour

Added to glossary by Dylan Edwards
Feb 4, 2013 18:20
11 yrs ago
1 viewer *
Greek term

σκιώδης συμπεριφορά

Non-PRO Greek to English Law/Patents General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
Επειδή οι λόγοι δια την τοιαύτη σκιώδη συμπεριφορά του εναγομένου είναι η υπέρμετρη ζηλοτυπία του εξ αιτίας του χρόνιου αλκοολισμού του και του βαναύσου χαρακτήρα του.

I don't have a clear idea of what σκιώδης means here other than just 'bad'. 'Shady' or 'shadowy' just doesn't fit the context.

Is this a correct use of σκιώδης? (I see that 'σκαιώδης συμπεριφορά' occasionally appears in Greek too).
Proposed translations (English)
4 +3 rude / brutal behaviour
4 shadowy behaviour
4 Questionable or unethical or abusive behaviour (depending on the full context)
3 deplorable behaviour

Discussion

Peter Close Feb 5, 2013:
@ Nick: This is a matter of opinion. I was not entirely convinced that Dylan's sentence definitely meant that the terms "υπέρμετρη ζηλοτυπία", "αλκοολισμού" and "βάναυσου χαρακτήρα" implied that the person had behaved rudely or brutally. Those words could easily have applied if the person’s behaviour had entailed uploading nude pictures of his girlfriend onto the internet or putting embarrassing photographs of her into her employer’s letterbox. I can think of many other examples that such words could apply to. I therefore considered two possibilities; either that σκιώδης had mistakenly been written instead of σκαιός or that σκιώδης had been written intentionally to provide a different meaning. My answer therefore covered two possible likely bases because I had not regarded the information that was available at the time to have been entirely clear. I wrote my answer in the way that I did for that reason.
Nick Lingris Feb 5, 2013:
I, on the other hand, believe that it is made entirely clear both in the news item of the video (you have "βίαιη συμπεριφορά" and "ακραία συμπεριφορά" in other sentences) and in Dylan's sentence, where you have "υπέρμετρη ζηλοτυπία", "αλκοολισμού" and "βάναυσου χαρακτήρα". Therefore, Dylan should leave no doubt as to the intended meaning behind the mistake by saying that σκιώδης in that sentence might also stand for "unethical" or "shadowy". The mistake can only stand for "abusive" in that context.
Peter Close Feb 5, 2013:
@Nick, OK, no argument on that score. However, if the context of the full text had been a little different (because Dylan's brief example had not made this entirely clear) two alternative meanings could have been "questionable" or "unethical" behaviour, which would have been possible interpretations of "σκιώδης συμπεριφορά" for the reasons that I had endeavoured to explain in my notes.
Nick Lingris Feb 5, 2013:
@Peter: When I have already included "rude" in my reply, how could I have considered "abusive" to be wrong? What I say is that "σκιώδης" does not mean rude or abusive and that in the specific examples it is used instead of "σκαιός", which covers the range from rude/abusive to brutal. But I have to repeat that this is a WRONG use of σκιώδης.
Peter Close Feb 5, 2013:
@Nick, Although I provided the website example that the video that you refer to is included in, I was not suggesting that your anwser was incorrect. I merely implied that it was not the only one possible in the circumstances. If you had read my full recommendation, you will have noticed that I included the word "abusive" and had in fact said that "abusive behaviour" is term that I would use to describe "σκιώδης συμπεριφορά" in the case of that video. If you are implying that the term "abusive behaviour" is an unsuitable alternative for Dylan for his particular text, I regret that I must disagree with you.
transphy Feb 5, 2013:
So, what does that make it?
Nick Lingris Feb 5, 2013:
Sorry, guys. My answer to Dylan's question was short and precise. You cannot use "σκιώδης συμπεριφορά" to describe rude or brutal behaviour, as in the context of the above question or of the unionist in the star.gr video (have you watched it?). People may have used "σκιώδης" wrongly to mean "σκαιός" or wrongly to mean "σκοτεινός". In the case above it has been used wrongly to mean σκαιός, brutal.
transphy Feb 5, 2013:
Shadowy Behaviour can be frustrating and upsetting, but, I think this can be done without the shadowy behaving person having to be either abusive, rude, violent or swearing. The shear silence, or non co-operation of that person might make YOU, the other Party blow up to swear be rude and perhaps be violent, as you cannot get to a conclusion without the proper co-operation of the former.
transphy Feb 5, 2013:
@Nick
Η 'σκιώδη συμπεριφορά' της Αντιπολίτευσης (συνδικαλιστή) είναι να υποσκάψει το πρόγραμμα της Κυβέρνησης.......
Τhe 'shadowy behaviour' of the Opposition (expressed by the Shadow Cabinet) is to undermine the work of the Government for their ulterior .....
I think they are valid uses of one case of Shadowy/Shady Behaviour.
transphy Feb 5, 2013:
I believe 'σκιώδης' is the adj. from σκιά(shadow). As a shadow is there, present together with the subject, almost in a ''virtual'' existence that one cannot make the true characteristics of the subject from it, no defined sharp lines, no expression, all in the back of the mind, left to you to ambiquously construct the subject, similarly SHADOWY BEHAVIOUR is such that, although you see/hear very little of it, any little expressed is so ambiquous, as to leave one far from a NORMALconclusion.
CAPITAL letters are for Emphasis!!
transphy Feb 5, 2013:
1.Shadowy/shady CHARACTER= A shifty/dodgy/mysterious/quietly scheeming/undermining your authority(Shadow Cabinet)/unco-operative character
2. A SHADOWY/SHADY DEAL. An illicit/ under-the-counter/ shifty/ DEAL
3. '' '' BEHAVIOUR. Mysterious/secretive/contreary(Irish)/undermining your authority for their gain(Shadow Cabinet behaves thus)
noncomformist behaviour/little talk/ all trousers and no mouth/under the radar behaviour
A few of the 'qualities' of a SHADY BEHAVIOUR.
This behaviour can be MOST POLITE but, my God, it would break you down by the shear SILENCE AND SULKINESS of the whole affair (where met).
Dylan Edwards (asker) Feb 5, 2013:
Perhaps there is some sort of association in people's minds between σκαιός and σκιώδης that would account for this (mis)use of σκιώδης with reference to brutal/rude/abusive behaviour.

As for the uses of "shadowy" in English - for instance "shadowy" meaning "of uncertain nature or identity" - and whether they correspond to any of the correct uses of "σκιώδης" in Greek, that's another question.

In the present case, the behaviour, as decribed in the document, amounts to this: violence and a lot of shouting (mostly swear words). There is no subtlety about it, no clever subterfuge, no "shady dealings".
Peter Close Feb 5, 2013:
Reply to Nick: Babiniotis’s Greek Dictionary describes one of the interpretations of σκιώδης to be synonymous with σκιερός , and the Oxford Greek –English Learners’ Dictionary describes σκιερός to mean shady or shadowy. Also, the Oxford Greek –English Learners’ Dictionary describes σκιώδης to mean shadowy or shadow.

Therefore, Transphy appears to have been correct in construing σκιώδης to mean shadowy.

One can find examples of behaviour being described as shady or shadowy on the internet. One example for shadowy is one that Transphy gave and that is: http://www.getclarity.com/tag/shadow-behavior/

….although admittedly the meaning of shadowy in this context is probably unethical or questionable or suspicious
Nick Lingris Feb 5, 2013:
I've only just read the star.gr link about the συνδικαλιστής and his σκιώδης συμπεριφορά. It is equally bad Greek. If the reporter's Greek were only slightly better, he/she would have used "σκαιά / σκαιή".
Nick Lingris Feb 5, 2013:
Good morning. Could you please point me to a specific example where 'σκιώδης' corresponds to 'shadowy' and where examples from both languages are of reputable provenance?
Dylan Edwards (asker) Feb 5, 2013:
Thank you for all the comments. In your last link, Peter, I see that the person in question "έβρισε με το χειρότερο τρόπο συναδέλφους". Similar "σκιώδης συμπεριφορά" (shouting abuse, etc.) is described in the document I have here.
Peter Close Feb 5, 2013:
Transphy was not incorrect in interpreting σκιώδης to mean shadowy, as the following dictionary confirms:

http://el.glosbe.com/el/en/σκιώδης

Also, if σκιώδης συμπεριφορά in such contexts is bad Greek, it would appear to be quite common bad Greek because Google and Firefox give a number of examples where the words are used in similar situations.
Nick Lingris Feb 5, 2013:
σκιώδης not the same as shadowy I would like to add that σκιώδης is not the same as the English shadowy. Resistance can be σκιώδης, i.e. weak. And we also have σκιώδης κυβέρνηση for the shadow cabinet. Shadowy, on the other hand, corresponds to σκοτεινός. Neither meaning fits the specific context.
http://www.greek-language.gr/greekLang/modern_greek/tools/le...

Proposed translations

+3
6 mins
Greek term (edited): σκιώδης συμπεριφορά > σκαιά / σκαιή συμπεριφορά
Selected

rude / brutal behaviour

Bad Greek. It can't be σκιώδης in this context. Σκαιώδης is ancient Greek for σκαιός.

http://www.greek-language.gr/greekLang/modern_greek/tools/le...

Peer comment(s):
agree Angeliki Papadopoulou
9 mins
Thanks!
agree sterios prosiniklis
12 hrs
Thanks!
agree Andras Mohay (X) : Χωρίς σκιά αμφιβολίας
14 hrs
Thanks!
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you, Nick. "Brutal" was best in this particular context - a stronger word than "rude"."
43 mins

shadowy behaviour

What do you find unusual in using 'shadowy', as you said. Go ahead. It's OK!!

1. Professor sheds light on groundhog's**shadowy behavior**
www.bk.psu.edu/31377.htm - United States
Residents of Pennsylvania look to the groundhog each February 2 to forecast the weather. According to legend, if the groundhog sees his shadow, there will be ...
2. pinkmonkeybird: Report** shadowy behavior**
pinkmonkeybird.blogspot.com/2004/.../report-shadowy-behavior.ht...
Oct 28, 2004 – Report shadowy behavior. We have expected dirty political tactics from the Democrats as their desperation mounts. Hinderocket of Powerline ...

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Note added at 47 mins (2013-02-04 19:07:49 GMT)
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3. Yall Politics | Honor Your Promise operator continues shadowy ...
yallpolitics.com/index.php/yp/post/31570/ - United States
Feb 23, 2012 – Honor Your Promise operator continues**shadowy behavior** - UPDATED x2. Can't someone just own up to it? By Frank Corder. Last week ...

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Note added at 49 mins (2013-02-04 19:09:58 GMT)
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Google it, you will find plenty of evidence that it is used in English, too.


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Note added at 1 hr (2013-02-04 19:27:36 GMT)
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4. Obama Calls Filmmaker a "Shadowy Character" - Katie Pavlich
townhall.com/.../09/.../obama_calls_filmmaker_a_shadowy_character
Sep 19, 2012 – Obama Calls Filmmaker a "Shadowy Character" - Katie Pavlich: President Obama took direct aim at the maker of the.
YOU CAN ALSO USE ****SHADY***, somebody who stays ''under the radar'' his behaviour is shadowy/shady.
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1 hr

deplorable behaviour

another suggestion
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13 hrs

Questionable or unethical or abusive behaviour (depending on the full context)

http://el.glosbe.com/el/en/σκιώδης
gives σκιώδης to mean: shady or shadowy

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/shady
gives shady to mean (amongst other interpretations): of dubious character or honesty; questionable

Babiniotis’s Greek dictionary gives one meaning of σκιώδης to be : χωρίς σθένος. The same dictionary gives σθένος to mean: σωματική, ψυχική ή/και ηθική δύναμη

From the following example, I would describe σκιώδης to mean:

http://www.star.gr/Pages/Ellada_Kosmos.aspx?art=154949&artTi...

Ακόμη και μετά από μια εβδομάδα εμφανίστηκε στο χθεσινό δελτίο του ΣΚΑΙ αμετανόητος για τη σκιώδη συμπεριφορά του και ακούστε πως τη δικαιολόγησε:


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Note added at 13 hrs (2013-02-05 08:12:36 GMT)
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The above should read:

From the following example, I would describe σκιώδης to mean: abusive

http://www.star.gr/Pages/Ellada_Kosmos.aspx?art=154949&artTi...

Ακόμη και μετά από μια εβδομάδα εμφανίστηκε στο χθεσινό δελτίο του ΣΚΑΙ αμετανόητος για τη σκιώδη συμπεριφορά του και ακούστε πως τη δικαιολόγησε:

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Note added at 15 hrs (2013-02-05 10:14:46 GMT)
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The following examples further clarify my answer:

http://www.pasok.gr/portal/resource/contentObject/id/7f20b0f...
Nov 4, 2012 – Οι πολεμικές επανορθώσεις και οι σκιώδης συμπεριφορά των συμμάχων καλλιέργησε τις προϋποθέσεις ανάπτυξης του Ναζισμού μεταξύ των ...

http://www.taxydromos.gr/article.php?id=38557&cat=712
Feb 1, 2012 – ... Στεφανοβικείου. Η επιστολή του Δημάρχου Κιλελέρ Ρίζου Κομήτσα με την οποία αποδοκιμάζεται ως «σκιώδης» η συμπεριφορά της Δημάρχου ...

http://logioshermes.blogspot.com/2012/08/blog-post_8325.html...
Aug 10, 2012 – Όταν κάθε μέρα διαπιστώνεται ρε αδερφέ… από τον ίδιο τον λαό η κατά συρροή απαράδεκτη σκιώδης συμπεριφορά των πολιτικών, στους ...
Example sentence:

Ακόμη και μετά από μια εβδομάδα εμφανίστηκε στο χθεσινό δελτίο του ΣΚΑΙ αμετανόητος για τη σκιώδη συμπεριφορά του και ακούστε πως τη δικαι�

Reference:

http://el.glosbe.com/el/en/%CF%83%CE%BA%CE%B9%CF%8E%CE%B4%CE%B7%CF%82

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/shady

Note from asker:
Thank you, Peter. "Abusive" would work here.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Andras Mohay (X) : unethical = αήθης / abusive = καταχρηστική // σκιώδης is a barbarism for σκαιώδης, 'σκαιώδης συμπεριφορά' is a standard expression
47 mins
Admittedly, but please tell me the name of a dictionary that describes σκιώδης to mean rude or brutal. When translating, one should interpret the intended meaning in the target language and not necessarily translate litterally.
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