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forward hands

English translation: The crew of a ship --as opposed to the officers-- who were housed "before the mast"

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
English term or phrase:forward hands
Selected answer:The crew of a ship --as opposed to the officers-- who were housed "before the mast"
Entered by: Christopher Crockett

16:18 Nov 8, 2004
English language (monolingual) [PRO]
Art/Literary - Ships, Sailing, Maritime
English term or phrase: forward hands
This is related to a ship's crew. I know that "hands" in this context takes the meaning of "men", but who exactly would be the "forward hands"?
Manuel Leite
Portugal
Local time: 10:32
the crew
Explanation:
As opposed to the officers.

In a traditional sailing vessel, the "hands" were the sailors who "shipped before the mast" (i.e., lived in a communal space towards the bow of the ship), as opposed to the capitain and officers, whose cabins were "aft", to the rear of the ship, the captain's cabin being right on the stern, with windows which overlooked the sea.

Cf. the famous memoir by Richard Henry Dana, "Two Years Before the Mast" (from the 1840's I believe).

The "forward hands" would have been responsible for doing all of the actual physical work required on the vessel, not just working on the "front of the ship" --subject to the orders of the captain and officers.

"Crew", "Hands", "Men" are all interchangable terms for the part of the ship's company seperate from the officers.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 hrs 46 mins (2004-11-09 14:05:36 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Not remembering having seen \"bows\" before, I checked the entry in the Oxford English Dictionary and see that it does, indeed, have a history in usage (including in Richard Dana\'s memoir), though it seems to have fallen out of favor in recent decades :

1772-84 COOK Voy. (1790) I. 166 At day-break [we] observed the others [rocks] under our bows.

1840 R. DANA Bef. Mast x. 24 Baggage, which we put into the bows of the boat.

1833 M. SCOTT Tom Cringle ii. 44 We saw a large West Indiaman suddenly..stand across our Bows.

1856 T. WILLIAMS Fiji & Fijians I. vi. 205 The commander ordered it to be run with its bows on the shore.

1877 Design & Work 218/2 To hit a craft coming bows on.

1903 Westm. Gaz. 15 June 3/1 The ‘standard type’ has equal offensive strength in all directionswhether bows-on or broadside.


From these I believe the use of the plural form comes from the concept that the front of a ship consists of two \"bows\" (long \"o\"), one on each side of the prow, as is seen in the OED\'s definition:

1. a. \'The fore-end of a ship or boat; being the rounding part of a vessel forward, beginning on both sides where the planks arch inwards, and terminating where they close, at the rabbet of the stem or prow, being larboard or starboard from that division\'. (Smyth Sailor\'s Word-bk.)
Also in pl. \'bows\', i.e. the \'shoulders\' of a boat.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 9 mins (2004-11-09 16:28:31 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Note to Dee Braig:

\"The bows is correct even when there is only one\" --\"correct\", but unusual, in most contexts (see my OED quotes above).

\"but cats and tris have 2 and 3 respectively ... :)\"

But only one for each of their hulls ... }% -{[ >
Selected response from:

Christopher Crockett
Local time: 05:32
Grading comment
I thank you all, but Christopher's answer seems to fit consistently with the remainder of the text. By the way, concerning the bow/bows question, in the book I'm translating the author uses "bows", but it's a book from the beginning of the 20th century, so I'm not sure what's the correct form nowadays.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



SUMMARY OF ALL EXPLANATIONS PROVIDED
1 +4sailors who are responsible for duties at the front of the boat
Jonathan MacKerron
4 +1the crew
Christopher Crockett


Discussion entries: 4





  

Answers


6 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 1/5Answerer confidence 1/5 peer agreement (net): +4
sailors who are responsible for duties at the front of the boat


Explanation:
in so many words

Jonathan MacKerron
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 8

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Clauwolf
1 hr
agree  Tony M: 'bows', please, not 'front'! I have a feeling it also refers to certain TYPES of duty, not merely their location... Nice comments, RB!
1 hr
agree  nlingua
1 hr
neutral  Christopher Crockett: It refers to where on the ship these men --who formed the crew of the vessel-- lived, not where they worked. And, Dusty, any give ship has only a single bow, I believe. See my answer.
2 hrs
agree  Hermeneutica: Without more context, those crew members assigned to specific duties related to the ***forward part*** of the ship, usually on deck. The bows is correct even when there is only one, but cats and tris have 2 and 3 respectively ... :)
17 hrs
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
the crew


Explanation:
As opposed to the officers.

In a traditional sailing vessel, the "hands" were the sailors who "shipped before the mast" (i.e., lived in a communal space towards the bow of the ship), as opposed to the capitain and officers, whose cabins were "aft", to the rear of the ship, the captain's cabin being right on the stern, with windows which overlooked the sea.

Cf. the famous memoir by Richard Henry Dana, "Two Years Before the Mast" (from the 1840's I believe).

The "forward hands" would have been responsible for doing all of the actual physical work required on the vessel, not just working on the "front of the ship" --subject to the orders of the captain and officers.

"Crew", "Hands", "Men" are all interchangable terms for the part of the ship's company seperate from the officers.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 hrs 46 mins (2004-11-09 14:05:36 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Not remembering having seen \"bows\" before, I checked the entry in the Oxford English Dictionary and see that it does, indeed, have a history in usage (including in Richard Dana\'s memoir), though it seems to have fallen out of favor in recent decades :

1772-84 COOK Voy. (1790) I. 166 At day-break [we] observed the others [rocks] under our bows.

1840 R. DANA Bef. Mast x. 24 Baggage, which we put into the bows of the boat.

1833 M. SCOTT Tom Cringle ii. 44 We saw a large West Indiaman suddenly..stand across our Bows.

1856 T. WILLIAMS Fiji & Fijians I. vi. 205 The commander ordered it to be run with its bows on the shore.

1877 Design & Work 218/2 To hit a craft coming bows on.

1903 Westm. Gaz. 15 June 3/1 The ‘standard type’ has equal offensive strength in all directionswhether bows-on or broadside.


From these I believe the use of the plural form comes from the concept that the front of a ship consists of two \"bows\" (long \"o\"), one on each side of the prow, as is seen in the OED\'s definition:

1. a. \'The fore-end of a ship or boat; being the rounding part of a vessel forward, beginning on both sides where the planks arch inwards, and terminating where they close, at the rabbet of the stem or prow, being larboard or starboard from that division\'. (Smyth Sailor\'s Word-bk.)
Also in pl. \'bows\', i.e. the \'shoulders\' of a boat.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 9 mins (2004-11-09 16:28:31 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Note to Dee Braig:

\"The bows is correct even when there is only one\" --\"correct\", but unusual, in most contexts (see my OED quotes above).

\"but cats and tris have 2 and 3 respectively ... :)\"

But only one for each of their hulls ... }% -{[ >

Christopher Crockett
Local time: 05:32
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
I thank you all, but Christopher's answer seems to fit consistently with the remainder of the text. By the way, concerning the bow/bows question, in the book I'm translating the author uses "bows", but it's a book from the beginning of the 20th century, so I'm not sure what's the correct form nowadays.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  DGK T-I: eg:http://www.coolantarctica.com/Antarctica fact file/History/s... (but today HMSSt.Albans&Ocean have bows http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_maritimesafety/doc... &seeFastnet race
21 hrs
  -> Thanks, Giuli.
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