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Oct 19, 2018 12:07
5 yrs ago
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French term

admission au concours des personnels de direction

French to English Other Education / Pedagogy
This is the cv of someone applying for the position of Head of School at an international IB school in the US.
I've found lots of instances of this expression (and variations like "concours des personnels d'encadrement") on the web but I'm still not comfortable that I understand what it means.
The context is "Après avoir occupé le poste de faisant fonction de principale adjointe dans différents collèges et lycées, j’ai eu l’honneur de valider mon expérience acquise sur le terrain grâce à mon **admission au concours des personnels de direction**."
Does it refer to eligibility to sit exams for management roles? or elibigility to be considered for management roles? admitted to the panel eligible for management roles? ...or?
Proposed translations (English)
4 Passed national qualification test for school directors
3 -2 admission to the competitive examination for management personnel
References
fwiw/hth
personnels d'encadrement / personnels de direction

Discussion

B D Finch Oct 22, 2018:
@katsy I believe the British Civil Service used to use competitive exams. Perhaps they still do. The Indian Civil Service competitive exams were held in London, which helped ensure that Indians didn't get recruited.
Rimas Balsys (asker) Oct 22, 2018:
@All ...we seem to be inching towards a hybrid of the two suggested translations...
katsy Oct 22, 2018:
Eliza Competitive exam. I do understand that this kind of exam does not exist in the US.. or in the UK. However my British friends have never found it difficult to understand the concept, and I feel sure that Americans would likewise understand it.
Eliza Hall Oct 22, 2018:
In US, school management = school administration I haven't heard manager/management used this way in the US, despite having three close relatives who work in education. From other posters I've now learned that the terms are used in the UK, but the asker is translating for the US market.

As for how to convey the fact that this concours is "competitive," even the word "competitive" doesn't do it because we simply don't have exams like that here. If you want to take the bar exam or the licensing exam to become a nurse or doctor, you can take it; the exam is hard and a lot of people don't pass, but nobody sets a quota on how many people are allowed to pass. If that means we have thousands more qualified lawyers or doctors than we need, so be it.

In short I don't think there's a word in English that conveys "on this exam, I was competing with others for a limited number of passing grades." The only thing that conveys something like that is actually getting the job of school director (or whatever), because in the US we do understand that there are only X number of schools with open positions, and you're competing for them.
ph-b (X) Oct 22, 2018:
Katsy, re: "v. well ranked agrege in late 70s" etc. Conversely I know of someone classé premier à l'agreg d'anglais who went straight to a university in the SW as a doctorant chargé de cours. As for "the days when you got the nicest schools according to your rank are long, long gone..." Officially, yes, and I agree it's certainly no longer the only thing that's considered, but not everyone would totally agree either: https://www.snes.edu/Calculer-son-bareme.html But I digress and this is of no use to Rimas. Have a good week.
katsy Oct 20, 2018:
ph-b Thanks for the "concours de sortie" which I realised I did know for ENA and other grandes ecoles. As for teaching, I never thought of CAPES and Agreg being "concours de sortie" - even the normaliens didn't - and for those concours,the days when you got the nicest schools according to your rank are long, long gone... A v. well ranked agrege in late 70s not a million miles from where I sit - first post, "college" in St Denis. But I digress. I do take your point and tx for clarification Have a good Sunday :-)
ph-b (X) Oct 20, 2018:
Hi Katsy Not sure that ' senior management may be unnecessarily vague'. AFAIK, in a UK state secondary school, 'senior management' refers to heads and deputy heads only. It does not include heads of faculty/dept or heads of year or even the finance officer, etc. As for concours de sortie, it is the competitive exam you sit at the end of your training - although in some cases it can be replaced by a classement de sortie; it's important in that the position you're sent to depends on your final grade/ranking. The higher it is, the cushier the job (better schools if you're in education, for example). Ask any énarque but if you haven't got any in your circle of friends, any policeman or teacher will do :-).
katsy Oct 20, 2018:
@BD Finch Agree totally. I.e. I got through the exam, not just because I know theoretical stuff but because I actually worked on the job , so please give me this one!
B D Finch Oct 20, 2018:
@katsy I think the bit about "j’ai eu l’honneur de valider mon expérience" is more like: "the experience I acquired as assistant/deputy head achieved recognition in the form of my success in ...". It's trumpet blowing.
katsy Oct 20, 2018:
what personnel de direction is... ..... and trying to answer various remarks here in the DB
See here: http://www.education.gouv.fr/cid1133/personnels-de-direction...
you see that it is a director/principal/head teacher or vice principal (etc.)So senior management may be unnecessarily vague.
As BD Finch points out (and others) it is a competitive exam. Once you pass you get a post, because they only give the exam to those they can give a post to - hence it is competitive, it s not just a question of reaching a required level - as in much of the Fonction Publique, btw.
Admis does not "probably" mean the person passed, it means the person DID pass.
The blabla about "valider mon expérience.... " etc is just another way of saying that "as I had acted as assistant head for..... that helped me immensely to pass the competitive exam to actually be a fully fledged (assistant) head of school". Hope this helps, and if I am not clear please say!
Oh and PS, I am unclear about "concours d'entrée" and "concours de sortie", well more about what is meant by "concours de sortie"...
Eliza Hall Oct 19, 2018:
Admis here probably means passed the test This exact concours is described here: http://www.education.gouv.fr/cid5349/concours-des-personnels...
Scroll down to it ("Candidats inscrits au concours de recrutement des personnels de direction"), then click on the second link ("Guide à destination du candidat...). On p.2 of the PDF is a calendar showing the steps candidates take: they register for the concours; send documents showing they're eligible; take the written "épreuve d'admissibilité"; await results; send rest of their dossier; then take the "épreuve orale d'admission."

If you pass the written and oral tests, you are "admis." You've passed, you are now qualified to act as a school director (headmaster/mistress) in France.
ph-b (X) Oct 19, 2018:
Oops Your 'senior management' suggestion is good of course - your question includes personnels de direction. Not sure why I went on about principals. Long day.
ph-b (X) Oct 19, 2018:
Rimas, That's right - it's not just for heads and 'senior management' sounds good. That's what we called it when I worked in UK schools. However, if you don't actually quote the exam's French name, why can't you just say 'school principal recruitment' without being specific? I'm afraid I can't really help you there as I don't know enough about US schools: specialist native speakers should be able to help you. Good luck!
Rimas Balsys (asker) Oct 19, 2018:
@ph-b I'd be comfortable with your wording if the "concours" has a specific version for school principals, but from what I can see the "concours des personnels de direction" or "concours des personnels d'encadrement" is a broad exam covering senior management roles in any institution. Also, in my experience, "senior management roles in schools" is not an unusual expression.
ph-b (X) Oct 19, 2018:
'passed the (French?) school principal recruitment (competitive) exam' - would that work in US English?
Rimas Balsys (asker) Oct 19, 2018:
Thanks ph-b I take your point, as she was only acting assistant principal she may not have sat the exams yet. I think best option is to play it safe and translate it as stated, ie, admitted to the examinations.... As for 'validated', I presume she means that that her practical experience was strong enough to entitle her to apply to sit the exams. (?)
ph-b (X) Oct 19, 2018:
Rimas, Passing the exam certainly makes her application look stronger, even if the IB school in the US is not -or so I assume- part of the French system. Also, she says faisant fonction de i.e. 'acted as', i.e. quite possibly did the job but not officially, precisely because she didn't have the right qualifications at the time, and got them afterwards.
Rimas Balsys (asker) Oct 19, 2018:
@ ph-b As she's applying for the position of Head of School, I imagine she has passed the exam, and not merely been permitted to sit it
ph-b (X) Oct 19, 2018:
admis à un concours means that you were successful, you passed the (competitive) exam. What is not clear here is whether it's concours d'entrée ou concours de sortie and this needs to be clarified. I understand it's the latter because she says the experience she gained has been validée grâce à, a bit as if she did the job first and then got the qualification. Sounds odd but could be because there were more positions than candidates (not unusual if by any chance we're talking of French state schools) and so the positions got filled without paying too much attention to the qualifications - which came afterwards and thus 'validated' the experience gained. Mmh...

Proposed translations

5 hrs
Selected

Passed national qualification test for school directors

I'm certain that my proposed translation is the correct meaning (the candidate passed the concours); the translation is a bit tricky just because there's no equivalent for this in the US. The closest equivalent would be something like the state licensure exam for licensed professions (lawyers, doctors, nurses etc.). You can't become a school director in the French national system without passing this exam, so it really is like a licensure exam -- it's just hard to translate.

This exact concours is described here: http://www.education.gouv.fr/cid5349/concours-des-personnels...
Scroll down to it ("Candidats inscrits au concours de recrutement des personnels de direction"), then click on the second link ("Guide à destination du candidat...). On p.2 of the PDF is a calendar showing the steps candidates take: they register for the concours; send documents showing they're eligible; take the written "épreuve d'admissibilité"; await results; send rest of their dossier; then take the "épreuve orale d'admission."

If you pass the written and oral tests, you are "admis." You've passed, you are now qualified to act as a school director (headmaster/mistress) in France.

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Note added at 5 hrs (2018-10-19 17:37:46 GMT)
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You could also call it a "licensing exam," and then explain in the cover letter that the exam is required in order to become a school director in France.

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Note added at 5 hrs (2018-10-19 17:41:01 GMT)
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Or you could call it a "qualification exam." That might be better than "test" because then it's absolutely clear that this was a competitive exam, not just a test of whether one's paper qualifications are sufficient for the job.
Peer comment(s):
disagree B D Finch : That misses the point that a "concours" is a competitive examination, not just a "qualification test". Applicants compete against each other. It's also not just for headteacher posts.
16 hrs
All qualification tests are competitive. The bar exam, the US Medical Licensing Exam, etc. As for head teacher posts, there are indeed zillions of concours in France, but this one is for being a school director or other high-level administrator.
neutral Pierre POUSSIN : And "directors" is just O.K. for elementary schools...
19 hrs
Not sure what you're saying here.
agree Daryo : "qualification exam" - sounds like a variation on the "Civil service examination" // although there is also the quite tricky part of making a distinction between "un concours" and "un examen" ...
20 hrs
It's only tricky because we don't have concours in the US, and we use "exam" for the most similar things we do have (civil service exam, bar exam, etc.). A concours is like a licensing exam -- that's the closest comparison I can think of.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
-2
1 hr

admission to the competitive examination for management personnel

Peer comment(s):
disagree GILLES MEUNIER : ça me semble litéral
8 mins
OK, it's wrong
neutral writeaway : I don't think management flies in this context
44 mins
I don't think "management" is wrong, but I failed to realise that "admission" here is "réussite".
disagree Andrew Mason : 'Admis' means passed (i.e was successful) in the French system
1 hr
OK
disagree Eliza Hall : "Management" actually is wrong because this concours is for aspiring school directors (headmasters and headmistresses). It's not management in the business sense. Also, as others have noted, the candidate passed the exam.
3 hrs
It is "management", what do you think headteachers do? https://nationalcareersservice.direct.gov.uk/job-profiles/he...
neutral Jennifer White : Disagree with Eliza. Management is correct. https://www.alleducationschools.com/teaching-careers/school-...
4 hrs
Thanks Jennifer. Nonetheless, "admission" was wrong.
agree Pierre POUSSIN : Thanks, but I am no that dumb!
23 hrs
Thanks. Avoiding a narrow view of what "management" means. It shouldn't be just money, league tables and job markets.//Oeuf corse not!
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Reference comments

2 hrs
Reference:

fwiw/hth

Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree Pierre POUSSIN
22 hrs
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1 day 2 hrs
Reference:

personnels d'encadrement / personnels de direction

Concours des personnels d'encadrement

SIAC 4 regroupe les informations concernant les concours de recrutement des personnels d'encadrement : personnels de direction de collège, de lycée, de lycée professionnel et inspecteurs de l'éducation nationale ou inspecteurs d'académie-inspecteurs pédagogiques régionaux chargés des fonctions d'inspection de l'enseignement du premier ou du second degré.

Inscriptions
S'informer
Se préparer au concours
Résultats
Foire aux questions
Après le concours des personnels de direction - session 2018
Après les concours des inspecteurs - session 2018

http://www.education.gouv.fr/cid5349/concours-des-personnels...

...

Après le concours des personnels de direction - session 2018
Le ministre de l'éducation nationale désigne l'académie d'affectation des lauréats du concours et les nomme en qualité de stagiaires.
Le recteur d'académie les affecte dans un établissement pour exercer les fonctions de chef d'établissement ou de chef d'établissement adjoint.
Pour la réalisation de ces opérations, les lauréats doivent suivre la procédure ci-après.

http://www.education.gouv.fr/cid5349/concours-des-personnels...


personnels de direction = chef d'établissement / chef d'établissement adjoint
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