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Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

TANT. GENER.

English translation:

general fractional share

Added to glossary by Jana Cole
Jun 16, 2017 13:59
6 yrs ago
11 viewers *
French term

TANT. GENER.

French to English Bus/Financial Real Estate call for funds
Maybe "tantième généré" meaning "amount generated" ?

Check image here:
http://www.screencast.com/t/LfJuehFO

This appears on a call for funds for a building. It's a header in a table with the following headings:

LOTS | BAT. | ESC. | ETAGE | PORTE | TYPE | TANT. GENER.

Under this heading are numbers, ranging from 36 to 149.
Proposed translations (English)
4 general fractional share
4 -2 percentage of general common charges

Discussion

AllegroTrans Jun 18, 2017:
Francois You have totally misinterpreted what Tony and I are saying. Of course you can convert fractions into percentages, and vice versa but that is not the point. In France the charges we are talking about here are expressed as FRACTIONS - do you get it?
Francois Boye Jun 18, 2017:
What we are talking about is a commercial or business convention in France. From this, you should not deduce mathematical statements.

A percentage is a fraction because x% = x/100

Whatever fraction can be transformed in another fraction with 100 as a denominator

let a/b be a fraction with a denominator different from 100. If you want to transform it into a percentage, you solve for x in the following equation: a/b = x/100, which implies that x= 100a/b.
Francois Boye Jun 18, 2017:
What we are talking about is a commercial or business convention in France. From this, you should not deduce mathematical statements.

A percentage is a fraction because x% = x/100

Whatever fraction can be transformed in another fraction with 100 as a denominator

let a/b be a fraction with a denominator different from 100. If you want to transform it into a percentage, you solve for x in the following equation: a/b = x/100, which implies that x= 100a/b.
Francois Boye Jun 18, 2017:
What we are talking about is a commercial or business convention in France. From this, you should not deduce mathematical statements.

A percentage is a fraction because x% = x/100

Whatever fraction can be transformed in another fraction with 100 as a denominator

let a/b be a fraction with a denominator different from 100. If you want to transform it into a percentage, you solve for x in the following equation: a/b = x/100, which implies that x= 100a/b.
AllegroTrans Jun 18, 2017:
US practice is irrelevant here. In France co-ownership fees and charges are apportioned according to the size of each unit and expressed as FRACTIONS - often of 1000ths, 10,000ths or even 100,000ths of the overall charges.
Tony M Jun 18, 2017:
@ François That's a very interesting perspective on US culture; however, the current translation issue is one about FRENCH culture — and in the first instance at least, a simple equivalence won't do.

I am frankly astonished by your failure to grasp that you can only call something a percentage if it is expressed in percent! We simple cannot say in EN (nor in FR either, I'll be bound!) "a percentage of 2/3rds"!!!
Francois Boye Jun 18, 2017:
In the US, condominium means all that residents an equal condo fee that contributes to covering the cost of the commons.

NB: a percentage is a fraction, Tony M! Please let to rest this distinction that cannot pass the test of basic math.
Tony M Jun 18, 2017:
@ Asker It's not so "absurd" as that — it's just the way things are done over here in France! It's obviously easier to calculate the real, concrete 'shares' in whatever form they exist, and then state that each co-owner owns / is liable for n of those shares. Logically, this will always end up being a whole number, and the notion of converting them into percentages is spurious and simply introduces another calucation step unnecessarily. Historically, a lot of FR documents have continued to work in common fractions, instead of converting to percentages. Remember the classic "even if it should exceed one twentieth part of the..."
Tony M Jun 18, 2017:
@ François 1) It is dangerous in the extreme to think that any translation is "adopted by PROZ.com" — to start with, ProZ.com adopts nothing at all, it is simply a consensus of suggestions by members; and of course translation is not meant to be a democratic process!

2) As we have all said already, a 'share', 'fraction', or 'proportion' is fine — but 'percentage' CANNOT be used unless it is something that can be expressed in %. It's like saying "I bought a bag of 5% apples for only $1"

As it turns out, we know that these 'shares' are in fact 1/5005 ths, so a very long way from 'percent'.
Francois Boye Jun 18, 2017:
@ Musilang

This is the translation of TANT. GENR. previously adopted by PROZ.com. You can see it's about a share or a percentage.

http://fra.proz.com/kudoz/french_to_english/real_estate/1260...’¨mes_généraux.html
Jana Cole (asker) Jun 17, 2017:
Thanks for that info I looked at another part of the page, and it indicates that each of those lots is divided into 5005 parts, or I guess 5005ths. Yes, absurd. It also shows the total amount of euros to be divided up, and the number of 5005ths alloted to this particular member, and the math works - it all adds up to the total call amount.
Tony M Jun 16, 2017:
@ Asker The idea of 'tantième' is "how many'ths?" — how many quote-parts of the whole for calculating the charges etc.
Sometimes it is expressed in absurd units like 10,000ths etc.! If you added up all those figures, you might get an idea of what '-ths' these are — if you were lucky and it worked out to a round figure!

Proposed translations

1 day 23 hrs
Selected

general fractional share

I regularly translate French co-ownership documents and they invariably allocate the individual owners' contributions toward charges in the form of a fraction as explained by Tony.

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Note added at 3 days19 hrs (2017-06-20 09:47:05 GMT)
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Commercial management | Drupal - Hugo Ceusters
https://www.ceusters.be/en/what-we-do/commercial-management
fixing rents/concession fees - related to market rental values - when (re-)letting,. • drawing up or optimising the share of 'communal charges' in relation to the ...



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 days19 hrs (2017-06-20 09:47:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Lease Agreement - SEC.gov
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1500866/.../d304617d...
The Company known as INTERXION FRANCE, SAS with share capital of ..... and, where applicable, the share of communal charges for communal areas of the .

Peer comment(s):
agree Tony M : Of course!
4 hrs
thanks
disagree Francois Boye : what is general share? In addition, TANT.GENR. I live in an English speaking country; so answer my question!
5 hrs
I suggest you try listening to native English-speakers before criticising
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
-2
9 hrs

percentage of general common charges

TANT. GENR = Tantièmes Généraux des Charges (en cas de copropriété en France)


http://www.syndicexperts.com/comment-les-tantiemes-sont-ils-...

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Note added at 23 hrs (2017-06-17 13:25:02 GMT)
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Meaning of 'tantième' in French:

A. − Qui représente la quantité indéterminée d'un nombre. La tantième partie d'un nombre (HanseNouv.1983).

B. − [Avec valeur de numéral ordinal indéterminé] Le tantième jour. Je reçus (...) une invitation à faire tel jour, à telle heure, une conférence (...). Ce dans la salle de la tantième chambre correctionnelle au Palais de Justice (Verlaine, Œuvres posth., t. 3, La prison nulle part, 1896, p. 168).Empl. subst. Depuis vingt ans, Dutilleul commençait ses lettres par la formule suivante: « Me reportant à votre honorée du tantième courant (...) » Formule à laquelle M. Lécuyer entendit substituer une autre (...): « En réponse à votre lettre du tant, je vous informe... » (Aymé, Passe-mur., 1943, p. 9).

II. − Subst. masc., DR. ,,POURCENTAGE sur les bénéfices nets de l'exercice attribué aux administrateurs d'une société anonyme à titre de rémunération de leurs fonctions`` (cida 1973). Partage des tantièmes. Les tantièmes sont prélevés sur les bénéfices à distribuer et leur montant est fixé par les statuts (Phél.1975).Les clauses statutaires qui prévoiraient l'attribution de tantièmes aux administrateurs sont réputées non écrites (art. L 107 al. 2) (Mémento prat. Francis LefebvreSociétés comm. 1990, Paris, Lefebvre, 1989).

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Note added at 23 hrs (2017-06-17 13:25:36 GMT)
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Source: Le Dictionnaire T.L.F.I
Peer comment(s):
disagree Tony M : Yes, but you can't use 'percentage' as they clearly are NOT perentages. You miss my point! These are 'proportions', NOT 'percentages', as the figures quoted from the column below show.
2 hrs
Sorry! a percentage of an amount (general common charges) is an amount!//Please read the definition of 'tantième' in French!
disagree AllegroTrans : they are fractions not percentages// fraction and percentage are not synonyms - are you really going to start arguing yet again?
11 hrs
don't you know that a percentage is fraction? that x% =x/100// Just reminding you basic math!
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