Glossary entry

Spanish term or phrase:

en propiedad y en carrera

English translation:

tenured career notary

Added to glossary by Jennifer Strachan
Jan 11, 2017 16:28
7 yrs ago
40 viewers *
Spanish term

en propiedad y en carrera

Spanish to English Law/Patents Law (general) Notary Public stamp
I'm wondering if anyone has a suggestion for this term, following the name of a Notary Public from Bogota, DC, Colombia:

XXXX, Notario Público xx en propiedad & en carrera de Bogotá, D.C.
Proposed translations (English)
4 +3 professional tenured notary

Discussion

Robert Carter Jan 13, 2017:
@Rebecca No problem, you appear to have intuitively nailed it in any case!
Charles Davis Jan 13, 2017:
@Rebecca I know the feeling well. Good luck with it.
Rebecca Jowers Jan 13, 2017:
@Charles, Robert and Toni You have done some excellent research on this expression, which is certainly more complicated than it would appear. I'm sorry to have dropped out of the discussion and to have been of so little help in that regard, but I have a huge deadline to meet on Monday. Buen "finde" to all!
Charles Davis Jan 13, 2017:
Yes, I think it would! I wonder what Rebecca herself now thinks about this.

Just to back up what I'm saying here, in the Constitutional Court case I quoted in my reference, where the draft Article 6 said that "los notarios que antes de la Constitución de 1991 ingresaron en propiedad por concurso se consideran incorporados a la carrera notarial", the government's argument was that this should only apply to "quienes accedieron a la función fedataria mediante un concurso público de méritos", but not to "quienes fueron designados en propiedad prescindiendo de este procedimiento de selección"; the latter were not to be regarded as "incorporados a la carrera notarial", though they remained in possession of their posts.
Robert Carter Jan 13, 2017:
Great. So perhaps Rebecca's idea of "tenured career notary" would work after all, since we'd call a "funcionario/servidor público de carrera" a "career civil servant", wouldn't we?
Charles Davis Jan 13, 2017:
Yes, I think so. It's important to note the date of your article: 1995. That was only a few years after the 1991 constitution and well before the current law was introduced. It doesn't necessarily reflect the situation today. I'm thinking particularly of the bit about ratification by exam five years after becoming "en propiedad"; I'm not sure that's still the case. It could have been an interim measure.

As I said before, what I think this formula means is a notary who is tenured and became so by concurso. In principle there could still be notaries around (I expect there are) who are tenured but did not become so by concurso. But notaries, like this one, who say they are notaries "en propiedad" are certainly not saying they were politically appointed. Everyone who gets a tenured notaría by passing the concurso nowadays is both en propiedad and en carrera. It's just that this hasn't always been so.
Robert Carter Jan 13, 2017:
Okay, thanks, Charles, so if I understand correctly, the "en propiedad" part is in contrast to "interino"? And the "en carrera" part means that after the initial appointment, the notary's position was ratified via the exam?
Charles Davis Jan 13, 2017:
No, I don't think so The document you found is very enlightening and helps to understand how, after 1991, you could be a notary "en propiedad" without being a notary "en carrera": if you were politically appointed before 1991 and didn't do a concurso. But that doesn't mean that a notary "en propiedad" is necessarily a political appointee. Even before 1991 not all notaries were politically appointed. "En propiedad" simply means a tenured notary, and nowadays (since 1991, in fact) there is only one way of becoming one, since all other ways are unconstitutional. Thus the current (2000) law, which I've already quoted, says "El nombramiento de los notarios en propiedad se hará mediante concurso de méritos" (Art. 2)".
Robert Carter Jan 13, 2017:
Political appointees / Career diplomats Perhaps this is actually the distinction being made:
Though any person can be appointed by a state's national government to conduct said state's relations with other states or international organisations, a number of states maintain an institutionalised group of career diplomats—that is, public servants with a steady professional connection to the country's foreign ministry. The term career diplomat is used world-wide in opposition to political appointees (that is, people from any other professional backgrounds who may equally be designated by an official government to act as diplomats abroad).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplomat
Although that would mean this notary is both a political and a career appointee, wouldn't it?

I know that in Mexico the term "de carrera" has been used since around 2000 to promote a merit-based civil service rather than the previous system of "political appointments" (cf. cronyism).

Qué es el Servicio Profesional de Carrera
El Servicio Profesional de Carrera (SPC) busca garantizar que el ingreso, desarrollo y permanencia de los servidores públicos de confianza en la Administración Pública

http://tinyurl.com/hmfmqlc
Charles Davis Jan 13, 2017:
And that, surely, is why Colombian notaries put this formula, which looks like a tautology at first sight. If a notary over the age of about 50 were to put "en propiedad" alone, it would (or could) effectively mean "tenured by appointment".
Charles Davis Jan 13, 2017:
Thanks, Robert That document completes the circle for me and clarifies the Constitutional Court case over the 1998 bill. That is why they were talking about the 1991 constitution. Of course there must have been notaries around at that time (and there must still be some even today) who had obtained their post before it became unconstitutional to enter the "carrera notarial" without passing through a "concurso", and since they were legally tenured under a previous procedure (effectively "nombramiento a dedo"), they were not retrospectively deprived of their posts; they continued "en propiedad" without now being "en carrera".

I'd be inclined to suggest, therefore, that "en propiedad" does mean tenured, as you suggest in your comment on Rebecca's answer, and "en carrera" means "by merit-based selection".

And indeed, this leads us back to a question we had only a few days ago, in which the phrase was "en propriedad [sic] por concurso de méritos", also applied to a Colombian notary. It was answered, as it happens, by Toni! I am now sure they're saying the same thing here in different words:
http://esl.proz.com/kudoz/spanish_to_english/law_general/625...
Robert Carter Jan 13, 2017:
"De/en carrera" Charles may have hit the nail on the head here with his comment about the "concurso de méritos", I believe. Look:
http://www.dinero.com/edicion-impresa/negocios/articulo/fort...
I've posted a reference below.
I wonder if someone can come up with a translation for it?
Rebecca Jowers Jan 11, 2017:
I agree As I mentioned in my entry, we really need a Colombian colleague who can clarify this.
Charles Davis Jan 11, 2017:
@Toni I quite agree, and that is why I thought "en carrera" probably meant practising; it just seemed plausible. But when I started looking for Colombian documents to confirm it, they seemed to lead in a different direction, though I am by no means sure about this. There are references to the "carrera notarial" in Colombia which seem to suggest it means the corps of state-approved notaries. So for example the current law says that the concurso is administered by "el organismo rector de la carrera notarial". As far as I can tell, being "en carrera" simply means being a member of this corps.

I wonder whether people put "en propiedad y en carrera" to make it clear that they are tenured state-approved notaries and became so by passing the current concurso de méritos, not by the previous procedure. But that's pure speculation.

What we need is a Colombian notary!
Toni Castano Jan 11, 2017:
@Charles You can have (Spain) a "plaza en propiedad" (civil servant) without being practising, This is nothing rare in Spain. As for Colombia, I´m not sure. It would be good to receive some sort of feedback from LA colleagues.
Charles Davis Jan 11, 2017:
@Toni I'm not sure about that. If you are retired you are not "en propiedad".

As far as I can tell "en propiedad" and "en carrera" are effectively synonymous nowadays. The current law, Law 588 of 5 July 2000, which is the bill presented in 1998/99, minus certain provisions removed after an appeal to the Constitutional Court (see my reference entry), simply says: "El nombramiento de los notarios en propiedad se hará mediante concurso de méritos" (Art. 2). It doesn't define "en carrera".
http://www3.registraduria.gov.co/normatividad/docs/LEY/LEY_2...

But Article 6 of the bill, before they removed it, distinguished between notarios en carrera, who had been through a concurso de méritos, and notarios en propiedad who gained their post through a previous selection method.
Toni Castano Jan 11, 2017:
"Practising" I think it means "practising" (= en carrera notarial), not retired. We call this "en ejercicio" in Spain.
http://wp.presidencia.gov.co/sitios/normativa/decretos/2014/...
Artículo 5. Procedencia de la Solicitud. El ejercicio del derecho de preferencia será procedente en aquellos eventos en los que el notario se encuentre en carrera notarial y en consecuencia solicite ocupar, dentro de la misma circunscripción política-administrativa, otra notaría de la rnisma categoría que se encuentre vacante.
Charles Davis Jan 11, 2017:
en propiedad vs en carrera I don't fully grasp the distinction, but it seems that in Colombia you can only be "en carrera" (that is, belong to the "carrera notarial") if you have passed a "concurso de méritos". However, there are apparently some notaries who are "en propiedad" but not "en carrera" because they became "en propiedad" before the rules changed. I don't fully grasp this and I certainly don't know how to translate it, but I'm about to post some evidence as a reference entry.
Toni Castano Jan 11, 2017:
@Charles Yes, it might well be. We would say "en ejercicio/ejerciente".
Charles Davis Jan 11, 2017:
@Toni So it would be in Spain, but "Colombia is different".
Toni Castano Jan 11, 2017:
DE carrera, not "en carrera" The expression "en carrera" is wrong. Correct: "de carrera".
http://notariaterceradecartagena.com/
A further research shows that "en carrera" might be also possible with the meaning of "practising", I think this is a Latin American expression, unusual in Spain.
philgoddard Jan 11, 2017:
The phrase itself only gets twelve hits, but you get more if you split it up into "en propiedad" and "en carrera". They all seem to come from Colombia.
Could it mean "registered and operating"?

Proposed translations

+3
2 mins
Selected

professional tenured notary

This might be an option. I don't think there's an "official" translation of this.

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Note added at 27 mins (2017-01-11 16:56:41 GMT)
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"Tenured career notary" might also be an option.

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Note added at 1 hr (2017-01-11 17:43:02 GMT)
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I interpret "en propiedad" to mean that the notary "tiene plaza en propiedad", i.e. he has passed the "oposición" to become a notary and, thus, has a tenured position. Closely related is the expression "de carrera" (I'm with Toni; I believe this is "de carrera") meaning that once a person has passed the "oposición" to become a notary, he is a "notario de carrera" (as is the case with "jueces de carrera" or "fiscales de carrera"), i.e. he is a professional (or) career notary; his notarial appointment doesn't expire or have to be renewed.

But perhaps a Colombian colleague might confirm this.
Peer comment(s):

neutral philgoddard : Possibly, but I think professional is redundant, since the opposite is amateur.
21 mins
Good point, "tenured career notary" might work as I've mentioned above.
agree Charles Davis : I'm trying to get a handle on the distinction between "en propiedad" and "en carrera". I think a reference entry is called for. // Sorry, Rebecca, I removed my previous comment suggesting "practising", which could be right, but I'm not sure now.
54 mins
A great suggestion. Thanks, Charles//I've added a comment above to explain how I interpret "en propiedad" and "en carrera".
agree Toni Castano : I think "de carrera" is what is meant here. See my note above: Perhaps also possible with the meaning of "practising".
1 hr
Hi Toni, thanks. I just agreed with your "de carrera" in an additional comment above
agree Robert Carter : Not sure if I can agree entirely with this, Rebecca; I think "tenured" is probably okay for "en propiedad", but "en carrera" appears to refer to ongoing examinations. See my ref. below. Saludos!//Agreeing to "tenured career notary" as per discussion.
1 day 10 hrs
Hi Robert, good point. You might want to post an answer that reflect that distinction.//Thanks for all of your enlightening comments on this difficult concept.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Many thanks, Rebecca, and to the research and insight of Robert, Charles and Toni - all very helpful in finding the most appropriate rendering."

Reference comments

1 hr
Reference:

en propiedad / en carrera

This is a judgment from the Colombian Constitutional Court on certain objections raised by the Colombian Presidency to the 1998/99 law "por medio del cual se reglamenta el ejercicio de la actividad notarial".

Article 6 of this law was as follows:

"ARTICULO 6º. SITUACIONES CONSOLIDADAS Y APLICACION DEL ARTICULO 58 DE LA CONSTITUCION POLITICA. Los notarios que en la actualidad se encuentren en la carrera notarial permanecerán en ella, con los derechos propios de ésta, establecidos en la Constitución Política y la ley. Los notarios que antes de la Constitución de 1991 ingresaron en propiedad por concurso se consideran incorporados a la carrera notarial."

Here is what the government was saying:

"En criterio del Gobierno Nacional, el artículo 6º del proyecto de ley también contraviene el ordenamiento superior, puesto que la garantía de permanencia que la norma consagra en favor de los notarios que se encuentren en carrera, solamente ampara a quienes accedieron a la función fedataria mediante un concurso público de méritos, pero no a quienes fueron designados en propiedad prescindiendo de este procedimiento de selección.

Por tal razón considera que los notarios que no han superado el concurso público y abierto, independientemente de la nominación que tengan actualmente, no están en carrera y en consecuencia no gozan de derechos adquiridos, Luego, no existe justificación para excluir de concurso a los notarios en propiedad que se encuentren en esta situación."

The Procurador General agreed with them on this:

"De otro lado, en cuanto a la tercera objeción relativa a la permanencia de los notarios en la carrera notarial consagrada en el artículo 6º del proyecto de ley, está llamada a prosperar, por cuanto la norma censurada establece un privilegio desmedido a favor de los notarios que a cualquier título se encuentren actualmente en la carrera notarial, a quienes injustamente se les tutela su situación laboral con la estabilidad que otorga dicha carrera, de modo tal que están excluidos de participar en los concursos que se convoquen para proveer las vacantes existentes.

En efecto, cuando se repare en el contenido normativo del artículo censurado por el Gobierno se advierte que el legislador pretende proteger con la garantía constitucional establecida en el canon 58 fundamental, las "situaciones consolidadas de quienes al momento de entrar en vigencia el proyecto objetado, estén en carrera notarial a cualquier título lo cual se hace evidente al preceptuar, a renglón seguido, que los notarios que antes de la Carta de 1991, ingresaron "en propiedad mediante concurso", se consideran incorporados a la carrera notarial, es decir, para la vista fiscal el legislador debe otorgar idéntica protección tanto a la situación de los notarios que actualmente se encuentran en carrera, sin importar si han llegado a la misma por una vía distinta al concurso de méritos, como la de aquellos que efectivamente superaron las pruebas exigidas legalmente para acceder a la función notarial, lo que innegablemente contraría el principio constitucional de igualdad real, que obliga al legislador a tratar en forma distinta los supuestos fácticos diferentes, con fundamento en criterios de razonabilidad y proporcionalidad, que en el caso bajo estudio no están presentes, como quiera que los notarios que llegaron a la carrera notarial sin presentar el respectivo concurso y oposición, no han adquirido por este hecho la garantía de estabilidad en sus cargos que solo brinda la superación de las evaluaciones pertinentes."

There's more along these lines. It sounds to me as though you can only be "en carrera" if you went through the current concurso de méritos, but you might be "en propiedad" if you went through another route.

Source: http://www.corteconstitucional.gov.co/relatoria/2000/C-647-0...
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1 day 10 hrs
Reference:

"Hay tres clases de notarios: interinos, en propiedad y de carrera"

Here's an interesting article explaining the differences between the three categories in Colombia:

Si se quiere entender el porqué de las acusaciones sobre politización en las notarías y el propósito de la Constitución de democratizarlas, es necesario comprender cómo funciona el ascenso en esta profesión. Hay tres clases de notarios: interinos, en propiedad y de carrera. Los que están en propiedad son nombrados por el presidente o los gobernadores, dependiendo de la categoría de la notaría. Antes de la Constitución, la ley establecía que el nombramiento debía ser por concurso, pero que si no se efectuaba, se podía realizar directamente. La dispensa condujo a que en la mayoría de los casos se asignaran los cargos sin cumplir con este requisito. Una vez entró en vigor la Carta Magna, se convirtió en inconstitucional nombrar notarios en propiedad sin que hubiera de por medio un concurso.

Para entrar en carrera, la persona en propiedad ejerce sus funciones por cinco años, después de los cuales debe presentar un examen para ser ratificado. Si lo pasa, puede conservar su puesto hasta que cumpla 65 años, salvo que infrinja las normas que rigen el notariado. Este beneficio hace pensar que quien consiguió una notaría, se ganó el premio mayor, porque tiene ingresos asegurados hasta su jubilación. Los notarios consultados afirman que sus cargos distan mucho de ser vitalicios, precisamente porque deben participar en un concurso antes de entrar a carrera, y para hacerlo es necesario tener una hoja de vida sin tacha. Mejor dicho, las palancas -si las hay- funcionan para hacerlos nombrar en propiedad, pero no para que entren en carrera.


http://www.dinero.com/edicion-impresa/negocios/articulo/fort...
Peer comments on this reference comment:

agree Charles Davis : Great document! Very well found.
3 hrs
Many thanks, Charles!
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