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InT DL
animaux pourvus d'une caillette
Jun 2, 2016 09:03
7 yrs ago
3 viewers *
French term

faire pendant

French to English Art/Literary Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting
Context: an artist is writing to his patron in the 19th century about a couple of paintings which have been commissioned but not yet completed

Sentence: "Ces deux toiles sont-elles pour faire pendant ou bien …(mot barré) pour être indépendantes l’une de l’autre ?"

I am assuming that what he is asking is whether the two paintings are to be hung together or separately, but I've never come across "faire pendant" in this kind of context. Is this an antiquated expression or do you think it looks like something's missing from the sentence?
Note: I don't know what the crossed out word is as I don't have the original document.

Thanks for your help!
Proposed translations (English)
4 +5 to match/go with/symmetrically with
4 +2 intended to be pendants
3 +2 match well together / twin
References
faire pendant
pendant

Discussion

David Vaughn Jun 3, 2016:
"the inference" "The inference will be to a fold or hinge and the specific tradition that the term implies."

Simply not true of all contemporary artists using the term. I've tried to explain how the term has changed meaning, and there is no doubt about that, again as is adequately demonstrated by the links I provided. One must understand how the author uses a term, not what one would "like" a term to mean.
Helen Shiner Jun 3, 2016:
@David The inference will be to a fold or hinge and the specific tradition that the term implies. See definitions freely available on Google. This is now irrelevant to the question here, so this is my last post on the subject, as I don't want to bombard the Asker unnecessarily.
David Vaughn Jun 3, 2016:
art refering to art Yes, just as the first use of diptych to refer to church paintings was based on an extension of the earlier use of the word to refer to clay tablets that closed book style.

However, as is very clear from my personal experience since the 60s and from the links I have offered, diptych is used by contemporary artists to refer simply to pendants, ie, works that are linked figuratively or visually without being linked physically. I don't doubt that the first photographers (for example) using this term were making a reference to church painting. But then the term took on a life of its own, as younger artists quoted not church painting, but photographers. (The term has been particularly widely used in photography, but also in other fields, and not only of visual art - see music for example.)
Helen Shiner Jun 3, 2016:
@David These artists are making reference to that hinged tradition, just as contemporary artists make reference to all sorts of things that are overtly present, such as framing. That is a key element of postmodern work. Here, though we are talking about painting and the 19th century.
David Vaughn Jun 3, 2016:
Diptych in contemporary art Even see "Diptych video" & "Diptych performance", just to mention a couple UFOs.
David Vaughn Jun 3, 2016:
Diptych in contemporary art "I have never seen diptych used for anything other than its origin meaning as a hinged pair of works, even by contemporary artists."

www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=dipt...
David Vaughn Jun 3, 2016:
dual option for pendants Yes, if the context supports it (for example if this quote is in a museum brochure intended for all visitors), then a [brackets] style clarification and use of the specialist term is a useful approach. Depending on the document being translated, it may be possible to work in a dual approach in other ways without rendering the text too heavy or footnoted.

Christophe, pendants do indeed tend to be used principally in bourgeois decorative art after the Middle Ages.

And yes, the term diptychs was first widely used to refer to clay tablets from Antiquity.
Helen Shiner Jun 3, 2016:
@Christopher It is likely that the term came in when works were made for people's salons, ie on a smaller scale, rather than for a church setting or other large public one. It is extremely common from then on. I see it all the time in my research and translation from the 19th century onwards. Conversely, I have never seen diptych used for anything other than its origin meaning as a hinged pair of works, even by contemporary artists. Maybe one individual artist or group has used it in reference to that tradition, where their works were not hinged, though I would assume the inference would be there regardless.
Christopher Crockett Jun 3, 2016:
pendant diptyches I'm going to grant my peer agreement to Helen because it appears that she is technically correct --and I believe that using accurate technical terms should be an important element in Translation Theory.

Having said that, however, I also have to say that, in 40 years as an Art Hysterian, I've never come across this use of the word "pendant."

But that might be because I'm a medievalist, very far indeed from a specialist in modern (even early modern) painting.

Though I have seen (very occasionally) a pair of modern paintings referred to as a "diptych," I would be *very* reluctant to use that word to refer to a pair of modern --even early modern-- paintings which were not so designated as such by the artist herself; the term "diptych" otherwise just has too much historical baggage associated with it (though I don't think that the baggage train goes back quite 3,500 years, David).

So, I'd say, yes, use "pendant" in this technical sense, but know that that usage is not a commonly understood one (at least in U.S. English), so attaching some kind of clarifying phrase might be appropriate --as is so often the case when translating technical jargon.
Graeme Jones Jun 3, 2016:
A thought... Is it possible/appropriate to cater for both options (thereby all audiences) and say something like "to be hung as a matching (pendant) pair"? Position of (pendant) either before or after pair, wherever it fits better.
David Vaughn Jun 3, 2016:
translation theory bis Another issue in translation theory is how do you deal with translating a historical document.

Do you translate an 18th century French document into 18th century English? (And that would be an extremely specialized job that I doubt there are more than a couple people on the planet capable of doing correctly.)

Do you translate it into 21st century English with a little old-timey color?

Do you translate it into 21st century English, but use its 18th century source as one justification for using specialized 21st vocabulary?

Do you get rid of any "sarcasm", because some people think it puts the author in a not "very good light"? Even if "sarcasm" has been a part of the author's playbook since the beginning of the written word?
David Vaughn Jun 3, 2016:
translation theory It is a fundamental question in translation. Do you translate for the reader or not? Here we have not identified the reader.

Another fundamental question is how to translate cognates.

Even though terms with the same etymology often exist in French and English, and it may seem obvious to translate them directly, it is not unusual for one to be a relatively ordinary word (pendant in French) and the other to be a specialized word (pendant in English). Translating a common term with a (comparatively) rare term changes the signification of the text. It also makes the text less accessible to the average educated reader.

Concerning "diptych", a simple google image search shows the word is often used in contemporary art to refer to paired works of any kind, often in fact to photographs that are not physically attached. If you prefer to go erudite, the origin of the word is actually describing writing tablets that go back 3500 years at least (the word is much more recent, and only still more recently applied to church paintings).
philgoddard Jun 2, 2016:
David I don't think your sarcastic comments, or your misunderstanding of "diptych", put you in a very good light. Pendant is a very common word in the art world, and the one a 19th-century artist would most likely have used. We're not trying to update the text for the MTV generation.
Helen Shiner Jun 2, 2016:
@David These are basic terms and I've provided the information the Asker requires. I can only suggest you do your homework. I'm off for the evening.
David Vaughn Jun 2, 2016:
diptych Goodness me, Helen. A diptych is always hinged together? Why in the world do these contemporary artists get everything wrong?

Meanwhile, what percentage of the US population do you think knows the meaning of a "pendant" when it doesn't refer to jewelry? 5%? 1%?
Helen Shiner Jun 2, 2016:
@David A diptych is something else: two panels hinged together. Pendant is absolutely not obscure. It is misleading to say that it is.
David Vaughn Jun 2, 2016:
audience I agree that specialists will have no problem with the term, though arguably "diptych" is a more common rendering today. Perhaps less suited to this apparently decorative context. I will argue that the term "pendant" is more common in contemporary French than contemporary English. But if the translated text is not destined for specialists, I see no problem "dumbing down" the term to something that loses no meaning for experts and still communicates to normal readers. But why do simple when you can be more obscure? No reason for the arts to be accessible. A question of philosophy.
Helen Shiner Jun 2, 2016:
@David Goodness me, David. It is standard (also contemporary) art/art historical terminology. PS Maybe read the context provided by the Asker.
Laurette Tassin Jun 2, 2016:
I agree with Phil & Helen 'pendant'
David Vaughn Jun 2, 2016:
"any painter in the 19th century would understand" Love it.

Can we all translate for 19th century readers? ;-)
Helen Shiner Jun 2, 2016:
With Phil Are they meant to be pendants or not? That is the gist of the sentence. I really think you should stick with the word 'pendant'; it is the art historically correct term and any painter in the 19th century would understand it and use it.
philgoddard Jun 2, 2016:
It's the same word in English, pendant "Pendant is the name given to one of two paintings conceived as a pair.

"Pendants were often works intended for a particular domestic setting - perhaps to hang either side of a fireplace or window.

"Usually pendants are compositionally and thematically related; for example, the landscape pairs of Claude share similarly structured compositions, but depict the light at different times of day and male and female portraits might respond to one another in pose."

https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/glossary/pendan...

Proposed translations

+5
18 mins
Selected

to match/go with/symmetrically with

See definition of 'pendant' under objet d'art: http://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/pendant//1 and the following shows this means a pair: http://la-conjugaison.nouvelobs.com/definition/le_pendant_de...
Peer comment(s):
agree writeaway
27 mins
Thank you
agree Charles Davis : It says two anyway, so that's not in doubt. I would say "as a matching/matched pair" here.
50 mins
Yes, true. Thanks
agree Lisa Jane
1 hr
Thank you
agree Graeme Jones : agree with Charles's suggestion - matching pair
1 hr
Thank you, agree too
neutral Helen Shiner : No reason not to use the term 'pendant' so can't agree with, or see the point in, this work-around. Sorry.
10 hrs
Good term, did not think of this as not many people would think of 'pendant' in relation to art-and not necessarily 19th century either. See Vermeer: http://www.essentialvermeer.com/glossary/glossary_j_p.html#....
neutral philgoddard : "Match" or "go with" could simply mean two random pictures with similar colour schemes that look good together. These are specifically painted as a pair.
14 hrs
Not necessarily random, they may be thematically linked or feminine/masculine portraits or members of a family; that's why I suggested 'to go with'
agree David Vaughn : The context shows that there is nothing random about these paintings "going together", though I prefer Raffaela's "form a pair".
1 day 1 hr
Exactly, see previous answer to Phil-meant to be a pair. Thank you too
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks, although the comments and extended discussion regarding the term 'pendant' in English were very informative, I went with a more descriptive term similar to what you suggested since I'm not sure that the intended readers of this text are specialists and it was more important to me to get the meaning across."
+2
4 mins

match well together / twin

form a pair

Peer comment(s):
neutral writeaway : where does the well together come from? don't see how twin works as a verb here
42 mins
:) mine is pure fiction.....
agree David Vaughn : Intended to "form a pair" is nice!
10 hrs
agree Delina Alwanger
22 hrs
Something went wrong...
+2
11 hrs

intended to be pendants

Are these two canvases intended to be pendants ... or independent of one another.

See my reference post.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day3 hrs (2016-06-03 12:37:27 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Re your question: it is less to do with hanging at this stage. The painter is asking whether the portraits should have the same format and framing. If it is a pair of portraits, for instance, of husband and wife, they may be portrayed gently inclined towards one another, occupy the same sort of space within the canvas, etc. If you really wish to clarify things for your audience then maybe inserting (matching) before pendants might be the way to go. It is hard for us to judge without knowing whether this is a tourism piece or an exhibition catalogue, or some other form of text.
Note from asker:
Thanks, although the comments and extended discussion regarding the term 'pendant' in English were very informative, I went with a more descriptive translation along the lines of - "intended to be hung/displayed as a pair" - since I'm not sure that the intended readers of this text are specialists and it was more important to me to get the meaning across.
Peer comment(s):
agree philgoddard : I didn't put this as an answer because so many people had voted for Josephine's suggestion. So good luck!
3 hrs
I'm sorry; I should have asked you to post it. Happy to remove.
agree Christopher Crockett : With the caveats I mentioned in my Comments, and endorsing Morton Jone's suggestion, or something similar to it.
16 hrs
Thanks, Christopher
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

48 mins
Reference:

faire pendant

Hard to get across the symmetry or similarity idea. Maybe "hung as a [matching] pair or separately"?

Grand Robert has this to say:

4 (Av. 1690, Furetière). Par anal. (avec l'aspect symétrique). Le pendant de…, des pendants : chacun des deux objets d'art formant la paire et destinés à être disposés symétriquement. Cette estampe est le pendant de l'autre. — Par ext. Chose comparable, égale à une autre (➙ Contrepartie) ou symétrique; personne qui en rappelle une autre. Une œuvre à laquelle on ne peut trouver ni modèle ni pendant. ➙ Semblable (→ Ébahir, cit. 3). — Figuré :
5 (…) on a souvent comparé Eugène Delacroix à Victor Hugo. On avait le poète romantique, il fallait le peintre. Cette nécessité de trouver à tout prix des pendants et des analogues dans les différents arts amène souvent d'étranges bévues, et celle-ci prouve encore combien l'on s'entendait peu.
Baudelaire, Curiosités esthétiques, III, iv.
◆ Faire pendant à, se faire pendant, se dit de deux choses semblables, disposées symétriquement et qui se correspondent* (➙ Accord, symétrie). Deux bergères (cit. 2) qui se faisaient pendant aux deux angles d'une cheminée. « Ces deux tableaux, ces deux groupes font pendants, se font pendant » (Académie).
Peer comments on this reference comment:
neutral Helen Shiner : Apologies, I posted a response to your discussion post in my own 'add a note' section. Trying to respond using my phone has its downsides ;)
1 day 3 hrs
Something went wrong...
11 hrs
Reference:

pendant

Pendant


Pendant is the name given to one of two paintings conceived as a pair.

Pendants were often works intended for a particular domestic setting - perhaps to hang either side of a fireplace or window.

Usually pendants are compositionally and thematically related; for example, the landscape pairs of Claude share similarly structured compositions, but depict the light at different times of day and male and female portraits might respond to one another in pose.
https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/glossary/pendan...

Pendant means hanging, and the term seems to originate in the idea of one hanging from the other – i.e. attached to the other. In practice pendant pairs of pictures were usually displayed on either side of a fireplace, or even a door. They are usually the same size and of subjects that are basically similar but differ in detail. Pendant pairs are often husband and wife portraits.

*Pendant pairs were not always conceived as such – buyers of a one-off picture would sometimes ask the artist to paint a pendant.*
http://www.tate.org.uk/learn/online-resources/glossary/p/pen...


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs (2016-06-02 21:07:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

'Paintings meant for each other': http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/11/nyregion/11artct.html?_r=0
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree philgoddard : Or companion pieces.
3 hrs
Thanks. Useful alternative, especially if the formats are different.
Something went wrong...
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