Mar 23, 2015 09:22
9 yrs ago
French term

Innommés parce qu’innommables

French to English Social Sciences Social Science, Sociology, Ethics, etc.
This text is actually about class passing, and in this part it compares the phenomenon to homosexuality:

***Innommés parce qu’innommables***, à l’instar des homosexuels stigmatisés par des épithètes infamantes. L’indicible homosexualité se dit ainsi le plus souvent sous la forme de l’insulte : « pédé », « tante », « tantouze », gouine, etc., mais aussi sous la forme d’une dénégation et d’une occultation par déplacement de la pratique elle-même sur un lieu ou sur une personne : la lesbienne qui vient de l’île de Lesbos ou le saphisme qui naît de la poétesse Sapho.

Discussion

katsy Mar 25, 2015:
The definition given by Francis is part of the total definition (B. 2 to be precise). See A, and B1
http://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/innommable


katsy Mar 24, 2015:
Samuel Beckett The third novel (of his trilogy) "L'Innommable" is translated into English as "The unnameable". I do not feel qualified to decide between two suggestions here 'unnameable' /'unspeakable'. Both options could be justified IMO - something which cannot intrinsically be named - there is not even a word to define the thing (unnameable); or because so unusual, awful, the word cannot be expressed (unspeakable) . Unspeakable might be an idea if the actual subject was homosexuality, but the context here is pretending to be from a different social class.... is 'unspeakable' perhaps too strong?
Francis Marche Mar 23, 2015:
The unspeakable INNOMMABLE : Qui est trop bas, trop abject pour être nommé, qualifié, décrit. Le directeur du palace, un ignoble inverti (...) fut trouvé assassiné dans son bureau, vers les dix heures du soir. Ce drame s'était passé au cours d'une scène innommable, comme le démontra l'autopsie (L. DAUDET, Brév. journ., 1936, p. 189)
from ATILF


Francis Marche Mar 23, 2015:
"L'innommable" is "the unspeakable" in English. (see. Foucault's Pendulum by Umberto Eco)

Proposed translations

2 hrs
Selected

unnamed for lack of a decent name

my suggestion
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you"
+2
11 mins

Unmentioned, because they dare not speak their name/their name dare not be spoken

Not sure if this is the most elegant way of putting it, but it's clearly a reference to 'the love that dare not speak its name' as Melissa pointed out.

We'd need more of the context to find a way of weaving it in more seamlessly!
Peer comment(s):

agree philgoddard
27 mins
agree B D Finch : Unmentioned, for they dared not speak their name?
1 day 4 hrs
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-1
58 mins

Unnamed, because unnamable

Don't see anything wrong with a literal translation.

". as Vladimir Soloviev, who took his cue from the kabbalah, called tt, Ain-Sof, the Utterly Transcendent, the Unnamed because Unnamable..."

"Male homosexuality meets all these criteria. Ultimately the man who cannot confess the unnamed and unnamable sin is the Pardoner himself."
the pardoner's homosexuality - http://is.gd/UsMJ7c
Peer comment(s):

disagree Francis Marche : "l'innommable" in French is "the unspeakable" in English, not "unnamable". A lot of things wrong with your literal translation.
11 hrs
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12 hrs

unnamed/unspoken because unspeakable

see discussion

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Note added at 21 hrs (2015-03-24 06:39:16 GMT)
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"innommable : un tas d'ordures innommable, a disgusting, an unspeakable heap of rubbish; conduite innommable, unspeakable behaviour"

from Harrap's New Standard French and English Dictionary
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Reference comments

39 mins
Reference:

Class passing

I didn't know what this means, so I looked it up.
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