maire adjointe en charge de la vie des quartiers et la vie associative

22:39 Jan 28, 2015 

After following the lovely discussion on Mayoresses... it suddenly struck me I perhaps ought to say clearly (as I don't know if Asker knows this) that in France there are a lot of "maire adjoint" on one town council. See here: http://www.nanterre.fr/150-les-elus.htm . Nanterre has , as you see, 15 'maires adjoints' for 53 town councillors. Just to say then that THE deputy mayor would not be appropriate, but rather A deputy mayor - or even perhaps, as indicated in the reference comments, "assistant mayor" (?)

09:59 Jan 28, 2015 

I'm suddenly reminded of one of the Rumpole stories. Henry is the long-suffering clerk and Dot is the secretary:

"'You can't imagine what it was like, Dot, when my wife was mayor.' Henry was complaining, as he so often did, about his spouse's civic duties.
'Bet you were proud of her.' Dot seemed to be missing the point.
'Proud of her! What happened to my self-respect in those days when I was constantly referred to as the lady mayoress?'
'Poor old Henry!' Dot couldn't help laughing.
'Poor old Henry, yes. At council meetings I had to sit in the gallery known as the hen pen. I was sat there with the wives.'
'Things a bit better now, are they?' Dot was still hugely entertained.
'Now Eileen's reverted to alderperson? Very minimally, Dot.'"

09:46 Jan 28, 2015 

(cf. Carol's reference entry.) Shouldn't that be the title of the Mayor's female paramour?

15:34 Jan 27, 2015 

there's a French lady on Linkedin who is on a mission to feminise both the entire French and English languages. Amongst loads of other propositions, she suggests "writress", etc., and of course she's disgusted about the current usage of "actor". I asked her how she'd deal with "Governor" but to date have received no response

15:27 Jan 27, 2015 

"Une vive polémique à propos de la féminisation des noms de métier, fonction, grade et titre a animé les débats ces dernières années. Cette polémique a notamment été soulevée par trois femmes ministres qui ont souhaité qu'on les appelle Madame la ministre, et non plus Madame le ministre (ministre est donné comme nom masculin par les dictionnaires).

Le Premier ministre Lionel Jospin a demandé à la Commission générale de terminologie et de néologie (qui dépend de la DGLF) de rédiger un rapport sur la question et rappelé l'existence de la circulaire de 1986 préconisant l'emploi des formes féminines dans les documents officiels : « Il convient de recourir aux appellations féminines pour les noms de métier, de fonction, grade ou titre dès lors qu'il s'agit de termes dont le féminin est par ailleurs d'usage courant (par exemple, la secrétaire, la directrice, la conseillère). Je vous invite à diffuser cette pratique dans les services placés sous votre autorité et à l'appliquer dans les textes soumis à votre signature. » (Circulaire du 6 mars 1998 adressée aux ministres et secrétaires d'État du gouvernement).

L'Académie française répond alors vigoureusement à cette prise de position ..."

14:34 Jan 27, 2015 

Not that it is important here - I agree with all who argue against mayoress, either because of the function, or just in the spirit of present usage. But I note that Martine Aubry is consistently referred to on my usual radio station, France Inter, as LA maire de Lille....

10:27 Jan 27, 2015 

Yes, Carol. The terms shouldn't be confused (though they frequently are). A Mayor, whether directly elected by universal suffrage or elected by a town council, has a particular funtion. When that person is male, it is traditional for his wife to be addressed as 'mayoress' - This will become increasingly insupportable now we have same sex marriage. Will be interesting to see when this term inevitably exits common English usage.

10:26 Jan 27, 2015 

on simply "Mayor", whatever the gender

10:20 Jan 27, 2015 

The Telegraph has its own readership, and although I don't consider myself an out-and-out guardianista it's my default newspaper and I'm basically with them on this. I think both mayoress and lady mayor are not in the spirit of modern usage. Does it matter whether it's a woman anyway? It shouldn't, normally. And it will almost certainly be clear from the name or the use of she/her anyway.

I posted the 1906 discussion from Australia because I was struck by the fact that over a century ago the use of "mayor" for a woman was being cogently argued. Not all our great-(great-)grandparents automatically used feminine forms.

10:19 Jan 27, 2015 

I agree with what you say, except that I'd take issue with the fact that you seem to be equating "lady mayor" with "mayoress". However, this is irrelevant once one has decided to dispense with any genderisation of the title, as proposed by the Guardian sg

10:14 Jan 27, 2015 

didn't mean to interrupt! I was on a roll with the Guardian style guide, and my second comment refers to my first, and is in no way a response to yours!

10:12 Jan 27, 2015 

etc!

actor
Use for both male and female actors; do not use actress except when in name of award, eg Oscar for best actress. The Guardian's view is that actress comes into the same category as authoress, comedienne, manageress, "lady doctor", "male nurse" and similar obsolete terms that date from a time when professions were largely the preserve of one sex (usually men).

10:11 Jan 27, 2015 

wouldn't get my vote. The Church of England yesterday inaugurated its first female Bishop. I'm sure she would be horrified to be called a 'bishopess'. I don't see why gender should affect the office of deputy mayor, and somehow the addition of 'ess' seems to belittle the post.

10:09 Jan 27, 2015 

just calls her the Mayor or Deputy Mayor, dispensing with "Lady" altogether.
See the reference, posted below, giving advice on how to address the Mayor - whether male or female. The thing is, her gender will no doubt be immediately obvious from the context when the Mayor is referred to as "she", etc

Strangely, I find no mention of this in the guardian sg - which is most unusual ;-)

09:38 Jan 27, 2015 

gets 741 hits,

https://www.google.pt/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&es...

and Deputy Mayoress gets 12,300.

https://www.google.pt/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&es...

09:35 Jan 27, 2015 

And we also have to fit in the "deputy" bit without sounding too clunky!

09:30 Jan 27, 2015 

The dilemma over mayor / lady mayor / mayoress is not confined to anglophone countries...http://www.leparisien.fr/municipales-2014/comment-fait-on-po...

09:26 Jan 27, 2015 

Is how the Daily Telegraph and others get around this. Can't post the link here on my iPhone but this comes up early in a google search on lady mayor. Might be interesting to see if there's an entry in the guardian style guide

09:06 Jan 27, 2015 

Since the incumbent in this case is female, the issue arises. Feminine forms have been falling out of favour; for example, the Guardian never uses the word actress nowadays, always actor.

Debate on this particular issue is far from new. I have come across this (to me) very interesting exchange of views in The West Australian newspaper in 1906 on what to call the first woman to hold the office of mayor in Ohenunga, New Zealand. It includes this:

'A "mayor'' according to all authority, when the word is applied municipally, "is the chief officer of a municipality, or one that fulfils the duty of mayorship." It does not say male or female; therefore it follows that whoever occupies that position, whether male or female, is "mayor." A "mayoress," according to all authority, is the wife of a mayor and, as such, cannot be the chief officer of a municipality, because her husband is. It would be absurd to say that a lady occupying the position of mayor was "mayoress," because "mayoress" is simply a title given to the wife of a mayor.'
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/25630950