la cote restant à l'ancien 20,00

English translation: the height of 20.00 m above datum (according to the old Paris system)

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:la cote restant à l'ancien 20,00
English translation:the height of 20.00 m above datum (according to the old Paris system)
Entered by: Tony M

01:05 Sep 5, 2014
French to English translations [PRO]
Tech/Engineering - Construction / Civil Engineering / Description of a house or apartment
French term or phrase: la cote restant à l'ancien 20,00
"Le LOT DE VOLUME NUMERO DEUX (2) comprenant : le volume de XXX m² de base situé au-dessus de ***la cote restant à l'ancien 20,00*** (système orthométrique) comprenant le sous-sol, le sol et les constructions y édifiées, consistant en un IMMEUBLE sis à PARIS (750XX) XX rue XXXXXXXXXXX et XX bis rue de la XXXXXX, comprenant:

[...]"

This one has me completely baffled.
Conor McAuley
France
Local time: 19:43
with the height still under the old system at 20.00 m ASL
Explanation:
This seems to be talking about the 'old system' of expressing altitudes — I think at some point the sea-level datum may have been changed. If you Google 'orthométrique' as I did, and then look at the various references to IGN etc;, you should be able to find out more.

From the location of this property, you may be able to see if this is plausible — look at spot heighhts round about, and assuming it isn't up in the mountains!

Note that in some of these sorts of dimensions, it might refer to the height at ground level OR conceivably at basement level — this may or may not be made clear by the rest of your document!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 heures (2014-09-05 06:42:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Actually, as it's 'au-dessus de...', you'd need to read that as 'above the level still expressed under the old system as 20.00 m'
Selected response from:

Tony M
France
Local time: 19:43
Grading comment
Thanks to all!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +220m above old ordnance datum
kashew
3 +2with the height still under the old system at 20.00 m ASL
Tony M
3the orthometric height based upon the levelling system used in Paris (NGF-Lallemand altitude system)
Duncan Moncrieff
2the side/dimension remaining as before at 20.00 m
Bashiqa
Summary of reference entries provided
Definition cote ancien (système orthométrique)
Duncan Moncrieff

Discussion entries: 2





  

Answers


5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
the side/dimension remaining as before at 20.00 m


Explanation:
As you say a bit strange. Does the rest of the doc give any other indication?

Bashiqa
France
Local time: 19:43
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 173
Notes to answerer
Asker: No, nothing else.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Tony M: Not 'side', since this is an altitude system
8 mins
  -> Hi, must remember to put my specs on in the morning. Thought you'd put 'an attitude system'.
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
with the height still under the old system at 20.00 m ASL


Explanation:
This seems to be talking about the 'old system' of expressing altitudes — I think at some point the sea-level datum may have been changed. If you Google 'orthométrique' as I did, and then look at the various references to IGN etc;, you should be able to find out more.

From the location of this property, you may be able to see if this is plausible — look at spot heighhts round about, and assuming it isn't up in the mountains!

Note that in some of these sorts of dimensions, it might refer to the height at ground level OR conceivably at basement level — this may or may not be made clear by the rest of your document!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 heures (2014-09-05 06:42:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Actually, as it's 'au-dessus de...', you'd need to read that as 'above the level still expressed under the old system as 20.00 m'

Tony M
France
Local time: 19:43
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 1250
Grading comment
Thanks to all!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Duncan Moncrieff: The Lallemand system was determined by tidal gauge with a theor. correction for gravity, so it mean the same as "ASL" today, "above mean SL" is more accurate as well. :)/Was probably being a bit harsh, but if a contractual doc., precision might be good.
12 mins
  -> Technically, yes, of course — but I think the intended purpose in the given context requires a degree of simplification!

agree  B D Finch
6 hrs
  -> Thanks, B! :-)
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
the orthometric height based upon the levelling system used in Paris (NGF-Lallemand altitude system)


Explanation:
Based on "noté N.O., est le système dans lequel sont exprimés les repères de nivellement à Paris" and references given in the reference section; it might be best to refer to it as "an orthometric height of 20.00 based upon the levelling system used in Paris (NGF-Lallemand altitude system).

Duncan Moncrieff
France
Local time: 19:43
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 27
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks for all your input Duncan.

Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

11 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
20m above old ordnance datum


Explanation:
*

kashew
France
Local time: 19:43
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 509

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Tony M: Up to a point; not sure if 'ordnance' is applicable for France? Maybe also specify 'Paris sea-level reference'?
2 mins

agree  GILLES MEUNIER
29 mins

neutral  B D Finch: According to Wikipedia, "prior to 1921, OD was taken from the level of the Victoria Dock, Liverpool (ODL)." Not likely the French used that.
49 mins
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)




Reference comments


5 hrs peer agreement (net): +1
Reference: Definition cote ancien (système orthométrique)

Reference information:
"Il existe deux systèmes de référence sur le nivellement en France :

- le système de référence altimétrique de la Ville de Paris est l'ancien nivellement général de la France NGF-Lallemand dit "nivellement orthométrique Lallemand" (système d’altitude orthométrique),

- le système de référence altimétrique pour le nivellement de la France est NGF-IGN69, système d'altitude dit "normal".

Exemple d'utilisation :

- Côte de nivellement de planchers

- Nivellement de seuil et fond de parcelle

- Nivellement de points hauts type toitures et antennes

- Implantation de points de nivellement NGF pour chantier - Implantation de trait de niveaux

- Etude et comparaison des côtes de plancher par rapport aux altitudes des crues"
From: http://www.actif-geo.fr/index.php/activités/plans-nivellemen...

"La grille de corrections entre les altitudes (orthométriques) du Système NGF-Lallemand et les altitudes (normales) du Système NGF-IGN69lien interne pour la France Continentale ou NGF-IGN78lien interne pour la Corse vous permettent de retrouver, en fonction du numéro de la feuille au 1 : 50 000, la constante C (en centimètres) telle que (Altitude NGF-Lallemand) + C = Altitude NGF-IGN69lien interne ou -IGN78. Il s'agit d'une valeur moyenne par feuille au 1 : 50 000."
From http://geodesie.ign.fr/index.php?page=grilles
From the above page you can obtain a map with the values of C for France - C=33cm for most of Paris.

"Nivellement orthométrique (N.O.)
Le Nivellement orthométrique (ou nivellement Lallemand), noté N.O., est le système dans lequel sont exprimés les repères de nivellement à Paris. Il diffère du Nivellement général de la France (NGF 69) par les paramètres pris en compte (niveau de la mer pris pour référence, champ de pesanteur utilisé pour le calcul). A Paris, le NGF 69 est plus haut que le Nivellement orthométrique de 33 cm."
From: https://teleservices.paris.fr/ru/jsp/site/plugins/ru/lexique...

Duncan Moncrieff
France
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 27
Note to reference poster
Asker: I think it's best not to answer that question! Physically or metaphorically?

Asker: (Sorry, note was @ Tony.)


Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  Tony M: When is 'level' not 'level'?! Or is Paris sinking... ?
11 mins
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)



Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs (or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.

KudoZ™ translation help

The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.


See also:
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search