Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
robe à panier
English translation:
dress with panniers
Added to glossary by
Roberta Beyer
Sep 11, 2012 17:40
11 yrs ago
7 viewers *
French term
United States
Legal / Contracts / Business / Technical
Native in: English (Variant: US) 
Works in: French to English
robe à panier
French to English
Art/Literary
Textiles / Clothing / Fashion
18th century clothing
This term actually came up in a text about seatweaving I am translating. I am very clear on what it means, as a Google search shows lots of images and sites. It also brings up Reverso with the definition as "pinafore," but I really do not think this is correct, at least not in this context.
Here is the context:
Le cannage
Il fit son apparition en Europe à mesure que les aventuriers et les marchands de la routedes Indes ramenaient d’Orient des matières premières et des savoir-faire. Ainsi en fut-ildu rotang (le rotin). Là-bas, il servait depuis des siècles à garnir sièges et châlits, de façonplus ou moins sophistiquée selon les classes sociales auxquelles ils étaient destinés. Ici, les chaisiers des cours royales s’en emparèrent pour donner de la légèreté à leur mobilier. Venu d’Angleterre et des Pays-Bas, le cannage commença à être en vogue en France auXVIIe siècle, mais ne s’implanta vraiment qu’au XVIIIe siècle. Les sièges « foncés de canne » connurent en effet un grand succès sous la Régence et Louis xv. Ils répondaient à une attente de confort et de fantaisie... et se prêtaient parfaitement aux robes à panier des femmes, qui tenaient une place de plus en plus importante dans les salons. Cette mode se poursuivit pendant le règne de Louis XVI, avec des innovations comme la canne dorée ou cérusée.
Here is the google image search:
https://www.google.com/search?num=10&hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=is...
To be clear, it is very clear to me what robe à panier refers to in French. However, I do not think "pinafore" is an appropriate translation, and I am wondering if there is an accepted term used when describing 18th century fashion to refer to this kind of dress. I am hoping that someone with even a basic knowledge of this area will look at the pictures and know exactly what it is.
Thank you!
Here is the context:
Le cannage
Il fit son apparition en Europe à mesure que les aventuriers et les marchands de la routedes Indes ramenaient d’Orient des matières premières et des savoir-faire. Ainsi en fut-ildu rotang (le rotin). Là-bas, il servait depuis des siècles à garnir sièges et châlits, de façonplus ou moins sophistiquée selon les classes sociales auxquelles ils étaient destinés. Ici, les chaisiers des cours royales s’en emparèrent pour donner de la légèreté à leur mobilier. Venu d’Angleterre et des Pays-Bas, le cannage commença à être en vogue en France auXVIIe siècle, mais ne s’implanta vraiment qu’au XVIIIe siècle. Les sièges « foncés de canne » connurent en effet un grand succès sous la Régence et Louis xv. Ils répondaient à une attente de confort et de fantaisie... et se prêtaient parfaitement aux robes à panier des femmes, qui tenaient une place de plus en plus importante dans les salons. Cette mode se poursuivit pendant le règne de Louis XVI, avec des innovations comme la canne dorée ou cérusée.
Here is the google image search:
https://www.google.com/search?num=10&hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=is...
To be clear, it is very clear to me what robe à panier refers to in French. However, I do not think "pinafore" is an appropriate translation, and I am wondering if there is an accepted term used when describing 18th century fashion to refer to this kind of dress. I am hoping that someone with even a basic knowledge of this area will look at the pictures and know exactly what it is.
Thank you!
Proposed translations
(English)
| 5 +6 | panniered dress |
Dr Lofthouse
|
| 5 | crinoline (dress) |
Philippe Etienne
|
| 4 | Hooped skirt |
jmleger
|
Proposed translations
+6
4 mins
Dr Lofthouse
France
France
Native in English
Specializes in field
France
When Accuracy Counts -
Native in: English 
, Italian
Works in: Italian to English, German to English, French to English, and 10 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
8
Selected
panniered dress
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pannier_(clothing)
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 mins (2012-09-11 17:47:03 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
..must have been like wearing a garden shed :)
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 mins (2012-09-11 17:47:03 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
..must have been like wearing a garden shed :)
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
JaneD
2 mins
|
| agree |
philgoddard
: "Pannier dress" gets far more Google hits.
9 mins
|
| agree |
Kate Collyer
: My preference would be for "dress with panniers".
1 hr
|
| agree |
Alison Sabedoria (X)
: With Kate as first choice "dress with panniers", second choice Phil's "pannier dress".
1 hr
|
| agree |
emiledgar
: with Wordeffect
14 hrs
|
| agree |
tradu-grace
: Pannier dress
3 days 53 mins
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
29 mins
Hooped skirt
It's the skirt that's hooped, not the dress.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Kate Collyer
: Hooped implies circular, whereas this fashion was an oblong elongation of the hips. // I know the term *is* used, but it will still give the wrong impression.
31 mins
|
|
Go check hooped skirt on Wikipedia
|
41 mins
Philippe Etienne
Spain
Spain
Native in French
Spain
In the reader's shoes since 2000
Native in: French (Variant: Standard-France)
Works in: English to French
Related KudoZ points
:
8
crinoline (dress)
the other in FR is crinoline, which can be found in any dictionary.
However, une échelle à crinoline is a safety ladder. Go figure...
And if ghits are viewed as an indicator of relevance, crinoline dress wins (at least with my settings)!
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 47 mins (2012-09-11 18:28:25 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Wrong, I'm out.Crinoline is XIXth rather than XVIIth according to my ref
However, une échelle à crinoline is a safety ladder. Go figure...
And if ghits are viewed as an indicator of relevance, crinoline dress wins (at least with my settings)!
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 47 mins (2012-09-11 18:28:25 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Wrong, I'm out.Crinoline is XIXth rather than XVIIth according to my ref
Reference:
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Kate Collyer
: Your amendment is right, crinolines are later.
17 mins
|
|
It shows that I only have vague notions about clothing... But at least I learned something today.
|
Reference comments
3 days 1 hr
tradu-grace
Italy
Italy
Native in French
Specializes in field
Italy
15y in translation
Native in: Italian , French
Works in: English to Italian, French to Italian, Italian to English
Reference:
robe à panier /cartwheel farthingale/mantua
hereunder just some links related to a/m terms:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertugadin
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guardinfante
Il periodo in cui fu maggiormente usato, però, il XVIII secolo quando le gonne dovevano diventare talmente tanto ampie da poter mettere le mani ai fianchi. La struttura della sottostruttura del Rococò era un po' diversa rispetto al guardinfante seicentesco e assunse il nome di **panier** (paniere, poiché ricordava i grandi cesti per il pane).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farthingale
Farthingale is a term applied to any of several structures used under Western European women's clothing in the late 15th and 16th centuries to support the skirts into the desired shape. It originated in Spain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1650–1700_in_fashion#Mantua
cartwheel farthingale
http://www.noblesseetroyautes.com/nr01/2011/12/robe-a-panier...
Le palais de Kensington à Londres vient de faire l’acquisition pour son fonds permanent d’une robe à panier de Cour. L’hégémonie de la mode française n’est pas totale quand à partir de la moitié du XVIIIème siècle émerge une mode nationale dans les Cours européennes. Ainsi l’exemple de **la robe à panier** (en anglais « **mantua** ») portée en Angleterre et aux Pays-Bas par les femmes de la Cour, cascade de soie et de dentelle. Cette forme de vestiaire n’a jamais existé dans le vestiaire français. Celle-ci achetée 80 000 livres sterling par le Palais de Kensington fut portée par la marquise de Rockingham vers 1760.
http://www.earlymoderndressandtextiles.ac.uk/bibliography/Co...
A richly decorated robe and matching petticoat made in a magnificent silk brocaded tabby, **the costume is a mantua**, intended to be worn for presentation at Court in England. These garments dated to the late 17th century and were informal, loose gowns. The style fossilized into a fitted bodice, pleated into the small of the back, and a train, lifted off the ground by a pin or fastener. Such garments were so valuable that they were recycled for the original owner's daughter, or other relative, when their turn to be presented came; this example was worn at a Court ball in 1845.
Since the late 1970s the **mantua** has been on almost constant display. The authors describe the technical research, materials analysis and conservation, and re-evaluate previous reconstructions carried out on the dress
HIH
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertugadin
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guardinfante
Il periodo in cui fu maggiormente usato, però, il XVIII secolo quando le gonne dovevano diventare talmente tanto ampie da poter mettere le mani ai fianchi. La struttura della sottostruttura del Rococò era un po' diversa rispetto al guardinfante seicentesco e assunse il nome di **panier** (paniere, poiché ricordava i grandi cesti per il pane).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farthingale
Farthingale is a term applied to any of several structures used under Western European women's clothing in the late 15th and 16th centuries to support the skirts into the desired shape. It originated in Spain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1650–1700_in_fashion#Mantua
cartwheel farthingale
http://www.noblesseetroyautes.com/nr01/2011/12/robe-a-panier...
Le palais de Kensington à Londres vient de faire l’acquisition pour son fonds permanent d’une robe à panier de Cour. L’hégémonie de la mode française n’est pas totale quand à partir de la moitié du XVIIIème siècle émerge une mode nationale dans les Cours européennes. Ainsi l’exemple de **la robe à panier** (en anglais « **mantua** ») portée en Angleterre et aux Pays-Bas par les femmes de la Cour, cascade de soie et de dentelle. Cette forme de vestiaire n’a jamais existé dans le vestiaire français. Celle-ci achetée 80 000 livres sterling par le Palais de Kensington fut portée par la marquise de Rockingham vers 1760.
http://www.earlymoderndressandtextiles.ac.uk/bibliography/Co...
A richly decorated robe and matching petticoat made in a magnificent silk brocaded tabby, **the costume is a mantua**, intended to be worn for presentation at Court in England. These garments dated to the late 17th century and were informal, loose gowns. The style fossilized into a fitted bodice, pleated into the small of the back, and a train, lifted off the ground by a pin or fastener. Such garments were so valuable that they were recycled for the original owner's daughter, or other relative, when their turn to be presented came; this example was worn at a Court ball in 1845.
Since the late 1970s the **mantua** has been on almost constant display. The authors describe the technical research, materials analysis and conservation, and re-evaluate previous reconstructions carried out on the dress
HIH
Discussion