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French to English translations [PRO] Art/Literary - Other / occupation
French term or phrase:ARTISAN-CRÉATEUR
Survey question that asks "lequel des deux mots décrit le mieux ce que représente pour vous un ARTISAN-CRÉATEUR ?"
It's a short survey to see how familiar the average consumer is with "l'Artisanat et les Métiers d'Art". This question immediately follows a question asking which word best describes un ARTISTE DES MÉTIERS D’ART, so I have to be precise in differentiating between the two.
(and of course, I received the job this aft, and it's due tonight...isn't it always?)
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 7 hrs (2012-05-09 09:19:08 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
I suspect there is a need to avoid gender distinctions and the unwieldy 'craftspeople', though I do hear that a lot also. I really would avoid using 'craftsman' since so many people working in the field are female.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 8 hrs (2012-05-09 10:16:42 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Fair enough, I agree that 'craft artist' is the best-sounding candidate on this page.
As for 'designer craftsperson', as you say, it's rather cumbersome, and I think it'd be a serious mistake for a translator to go for cumbersome target terms in order to satisfy their own need of PC. What will that translator do the day they have to translate a controversial text? Set it straight for the reader?
'tis neither here nor there, in the end, as I really like Helen's "craft artist". Had I used yours though, Cyril, I would have stayed true to the PC Canadian female that I am, and used "designer craftsperson" - as cumbersome as that is.
I'm only anti-PC when it's being shoved down my screen :>
You started this discussion by alleging that 'craftsman' was no longer valid _because_ of the gender limitation it carries. Do you have some kind of reference, some discussion of the crafts council maybe, to back that claim?
This is no PC crusade - that is what is so silly. I am merely reflecting in my discussion what is happening in the real world. Sorry you don't like it. The use of 'artists' in the US is also loaded. Evidently, there is a tendency to move away from the applied arts being considered secondary to the fine arts. This has nothing to do with my personal opinions; it also reflects what is happening in the real world. Being anti-PC is as much a political stance as being pro-PC, by the way; I prefer to assist the Asker with the facts of current everyday experience in the field.
Completely disagreing with me would have been dishonest as my suggestion is valid. Just as those you offered... Possibly better because we don't know who the target of this survey is, it could well be foreign tourists whose first language is not English, and for whom "designer craftsman" will be perfectly clear while terms like "designer maker" might bring confusion only: what is a "designer maker"? someone who makes designers? some kind of teacher? ...But I know your suggestion is perfectly valid, and I leave it alone.
As for taking it personally... Hmm, no. I don't know you and you most probably don't know me, so how could it be personal? I'm just defending my -valid- suggestion against some PC crusade which I find inappropriate after a while.
I am not advocating that anyone should not 'live' - what a silly comment! I am just trying to help the Asker reach an informed decision based on what current usage is, particularly in terms of what is being advocated and used by official crafts bodies in the US and the UK. I know many makers, most of them women, and not one of them refers to themselves as a craftsman. I am sorry you are taking it so personally. I could just have completely disagreed with you.
_You_ say the term I suggested is not current. I provided references showing that many people, most probably including many women, refer to themselves that way. They probably disagree with you about them being abeyed or not current. And I'll agree with them! Please let them live :>
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 7 hrs (2012-05-09 09:19:08 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
I suspect there is a need to avoid gender distinctions and the unwieldy 'craftspeople', though I do hear that a lot also. I really would avoid using 'craftsman' since so many people working in the field are female.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 8 hrs (2012-05-09 10:16:42 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
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peer agreement (net): +1