rez-de-dalle

English translation: concourse level

18:34 Dec 16, 2011

French to English translations [PRO]
Tech/Engineering - Architecture

French term or phrase: rez-de-dalle

I'm working on a property deed, and I found this term in the description of the premises.

Context:

-472,78 m2 du niveau rez-de-dalle au sixième étage (6.50 à 7.10 NGF environ)

Can anybody help?

Thanks!

Carla Avenia Koency KudoZ activity Questions: 20 (none open) (1 without valid answers) Answers: 14 Argentina
Local time: 17:18

English translation:concourse level

Explanation:
hard to say without more info but I assume this is a case where the building is surrounded by an elevated pedestrian concourse, as at La Défense for instance. Six floors between that and the ground floor seems a lot, but it may be reasonable. I don't remember how many "sub-concourse" floors the buildings at La Défense have, but it must be at least 3 or 4, depending maybe which end of the concourse they are.

If it IS "from the ground floor to the sixth", and assuming the total floor area of 472m² is divided equally between the floors, that makes just 67m² per floor. Not a lot for retail or office premises, especially if you have to have stairs connecting them. Maybe these are plant (technical) rooms ...

6.50 à 7.10 NGF environ is another mystery. That's 60 cm. Is the floor not level or do they simply not know how high it is? In any case, a sixth floor will necessarily be more than 7m asl, even if the building is on the beach!

What is the building, where is it?

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Note added at 2 days19 hrs (2011-12-19 13:45:47 GMT)
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Le site du projet est actuellement occupé en majeure partie par l'immeuble de bureaux IRIS. Le groupe Générali en est propriétaire. Cet immeuble se développe sur 7 NIVEAUX AU DESSUS DE LA DALLE DU PARVIS ET SUR 5 NIVEAUX D'INFRASTRUCTURE

Le niveau de référence principal pour les futurs usagers de la tour est celui du rez-DE-DALLE À LA
CÔTE 48.70 NGF. Ce niveau, qui est celui du hall d'accueil, est accessible de plain pied depuis la
place de l'Iris au sud.
Il correspond également à l'altimétrie des deux passerelles Iris et Alsace qui encadrent le projet à l'ouest et à l'est avant d'enjamber le boulevard circulaire pour rejoindre les autres quartiers de la ville de Courbevoie.
® Un autre niveau de référence est celui du boulevard circulaire au nord au niveau « REZ DE RUE » DE LA TOUR À LA CÔTE 36.65 NGF. Il correspond à la future voie de desserte qui cheminera à couvert sous la dalle du R2 et permettra d'accéder à un hall secondaire VIP.

Le projet de la Tour Generali comporte 46 NIVEAUX DE SUPERSTRUCTURE DEPUIS LE NIVEAU DE RÉFÉRENCE D'ACCESSIBILITÉ PIÉTONS DU REZ-DE-DALLE, 3 NIVEAUX INTERMÉDIAIRES DEPUIS LE REZ DE RUE (CÔTÉ BOULEVARD CIRCULAIRE) ET 2 NIVEAUX EN INFRASTRUCTURE.

Sous le niveau S2 un volume technique abrite les cuvettes monte-charges et les cuves de rétention EP.
Le NIVEAU S2 (27.00 NGF), pour une grande part à usage technique, comprend notamment les stockages de frigories, le sprinklage, les bâches à eau et surpresseurs.
Le NIVEAU S1 (31.15 NGF) est également à usage technique. Il accueille notamment l'arrivée des réseaux urbains, des postes de transformation et des groupes électrogènes. Des locaux concessionnaires accessibles de plain pied sont disposés en façade ouest.
Le NIVEAU REZ DE RUE (36.65 NGF) correspondant à l'altimétrie du boulevard circulaire est traversé par une voie de desserte en sens unique, en double hauteur, à couvert desservant le bâtiment.
Au nord de la voie, le bâtiment sur le boulevard contient un commerce ouvert sur le boulevard et un stationnement vélos.
Au sud de la voie, dans l'emprise carrée de la tour, sont installés un accès visiteurs et son hall attenant, ainsi que des locaux techniques et les locaux spécifiques aux sapeurs pompiers (PCI et base vie).
Le NIVEAU R1 (40.58 NGF) contient de grandes zones d'archives, une salle informatique ainsi que des locaux techniques
Le NIVEAU R2 (44.50 NGF) accueille majoritairement la cuisine centrale de la tour ainsi qu'une zone de bureaux.
Ce niveau est desservi au sud, par l'aire de livraison en connexion directe avec l'espace de réception de la cuisine et les zones déchets.
LE NIVEAU REZ-DE-DALLE (48.70 NGF) correspond à l'entrée principale de la tour depuis la place de l'Iris au sud. Il contient le hall double hauteur et l'accès aux différents organes de circulation verticale.
Au nord dans l'emprise du bâtiment sur le boulevard est créé un auditorium de 177 places et son foyer, ainsi qu'un ensemble de salles de réunions.
Le NIVEAU D1 (54.70 NGF) est dédié à la restauration. Il contient un RIE de 452 places réparti en 3 entités : - une distribution par kiosques express de 280 places
http://www.defense-92.fr/generalileprojet.html

The building continues to niveau D46, so I assume D = Dalle. In your case, you are looking at rez de dalle and floor D6, to use the same terminology, unless your rez de dalle and level 6 (measured from the actual ground level) are one and the same.

Selected response from:

Bourth (X)
Local time: 22:18

Grading comment

Selected automatically based on peer agreement.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

5 +1

ground floor

Nikki Scott-Despaigne

3 +2

concourse level

Bourth (X)

bottom slab

axies

Summary of reference entries provided

Wiki extract:

kashew

Discussion entries: 9

kashew

France

Architect's drawings

10:15 Dec 17, 2011

could elucidate?

Tony M

France

6th floor

21:34 Dec 16, 2011

I really don't see any problem with this being "from the ... floor to the 6th floor" — why should a building not have as many as 6 floors above the pedestrian esplanade? Just think of the buildings at La Defense in Paris, many of which are a lot higher than this!
I don't see anything to suggest this is below the 'rdd' (though I admit that spurious – did confuse me at first!)

Tony M

France

@ Nikki

21:27 Dec 16, 2011

I hear what you're saying, but I think you're confusing two different meanings of 'dalle', and so apparently is the ref. you quote — I don't have a great deal of faith in their 'slab' or 'flagstone' level.

The idea of 'dalle' as a floor slab is of course perfectly normal; but one can hardly describe a storey of a building as being at 'slab level' — though it may well, of course, consist of a slab!

I stand by what I said at the outset: this is a special, restrictive meaning of 'dalle', as particularly applicable to certain kinds of modern urban developments where the 'ground floor' of a building may not necessarily correspond in any real way to 'street' level. This is, in fact, exactly what your ref. is saying too: "a level that corresponds to a pedestrian movement area where this is separate from the roadway" — but on a macro rather than micro scale, as with your raised loading bay idea.

Carla Avenia Koency

Argentina

ASKER

@Tony M.

19:55 Dec 16, 2011

Sorry, that was just me making a typo. There is no "negative" area. It's a list of several parts of the premises, this is where I got this excerpt from. I'm still a bit confused about which terms to use, I'm waiting for more opinions...

Nikki Scott-Despaigne

19:41 Dec 16, 2011

I've seen the term used when loading bays have to be raised so that loading can be done on a level with the height of a trucks flooring when it's back doors are open. Not very technical, but I am sure you know what I mean. In theatre and large show halls, heavy equipment sometimes needs to be delivered, offloaded and taken away again on floors other than the ground level. If there is not a ramp, there is sometime a big door opening on a firts floor or higher. That is where I have seen rez-de-dalle.
(I am not suggesting deliveries are bieng made on the 6th floor, just to convey the meaning).

Nikki Scott-Despaigne

19:35 Dec 16, 2011

It's classic meaning is :

http://www.presse-francophone.org/apfa/defi/r/rezdedal.htm

REZ-DE-DALLE, n. m.

Domaine : bâtiment.

Définition : niveau correspondant à la circulation des piétons lorsqu'il est distinct de celui de la circulation routière.

Anglais : slab level, flagstone level.

Source : ancien arrêté du 17 février 1986 (J.O. du 21 mars 1986).

However, the context here is in reference to the 6th floor so this standard meaning cannot apply. FYI I live in a flat on the second floor and I am not allowed to "percer la dalle", although I have to fix something to the floor. Shhh. A 2mm hole can be hidden!!!

Tony M

France

@ Nikki

18:51 Dec 16, 2011

I'm not so sure!

'dalle' can also have another meaning (cf. Paris La Défense), and it's arguable that this would fit more logically with the 'rez-de-' bit...

Tony M

France

dalle

18:50 Dec 16, 2011

I recommend trying a term search on the 'dalle' bit, as this has come up before, and may shed some light, though you don't give enough overall context for us to be sure.

I'm a bit puzzled by the –472,78 m² — hard to be sure just why they would be talking about a negative area...?

Nikki Scott-Despaigne

18:40 Dec 16, 2011

"rez" means on a level with
"dalle" is the concrete floor, the base on which other coverings will be added.
It boils down to the structural base of the "étage" or floor itself.

Answers

1 hr confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

ground floor

Explanation:
Just reread this and I think I may have seen the ight! No need to deviate from the normal meaning.

"DU rez-de-dalle AU 6e étage"

"FROM ground floor TO THE 6th floor"

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Note added at 1 hr (2011-12-16 19:58:16 GMT)
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I'd been thinking "OF the ground floor" and with "au" as a stationary "ON" rather than the expression of a distance covered between the two points, "TO THE". Pff... kicking myself!

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Note added at 1 hr (2011-12-16 19:58:44 GMT)
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http://www.presse-francophone.org/apfa/defi/r/rezdedal.htm

REZ-DE-DALLE, n. m.

Domaine : bâtiment.

Définition : niveau correspondant à la circulation des piétons lorsqu'il est distinct de celui de la circulation routière.

Anglais : slab level, flagstone level.

Source : ancien arrêté du 17 février 1986 (J.O. du 21 mars 1986).

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Note added at 6 hrs (2011-12-17 01:07:34 GMT)
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Might this not be taking "flagstone" as in the reference to be me

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Note added at 6 hrs (2011-12-17 01:08:21 GMT)
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MDR, not to be "me" (?*!) but to be meaning on a level with the flagstone as in pavement?

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Note added at 6 hrs (2011-12-17 01:10:42 GMT)
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I have no problem with a six-storey building with 67m²/floor as offices, if this is an old building which has been converted?

I have lived in an old building which had once served as the village's town hall and then later again was converted into accommodation. EAch floor had about 70m² and there were three floors.
Guess we need more context...?

Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Local time: 22:18
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 7

8 hrs confidence:

bottom slab

Explanation:
res-de-dalle instead of...
res-de-chaussée <=> ground/lower/bottom floor.

axies
Australia
Local time: 05:48
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English,

Portuguese

1 hr confidence:

peer agreement (net): +2

concourse level

Bourth (X)
Local time: 22:18
Works in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 539

Grading comment

Selected automatically based on peer agreement.

Reference comments

6 mins

Reference: Wiki extract:

Reference information:
Pour la conception urbaine des dalles paysagées comportant des jardins et des circulations piétonnes surélevés communes à un quartier qui ont généralisé cette conception, le rez-de-dalle est devenu le nouveau niveau rez-de-chaussée piéton.

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Note added at 7 minutes (2011-12-16 18:42:40 GMT)
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I agree with Nikki here.

kashew
France
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 99

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English translation: concourse level

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