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Glossary entry

Spanish term or phrase:

moradores (medieval Spain)

English translation:

other residents

Added to glossary by liz askew
Mar 7, 2011 16:55
13 yrs ago
5 viewers *
Spanish term

moradores

Spanish to English Social Sciences History Essay written by Julio Ca
Looking to understand the distinction between "vecinos" and "moradores" in the following reference to a census taken in the 17th century:

A la carpeta 19 del mismo legajo hay otro censo hecho el 25 de septiembre de 1646 donde salen 141 vecinos, 73 moradores: se incluyen las 65 casas quemadas, en el número de casas y “caserías.”
Proposed translations (English)
3 +2 residents
3 +1 inhabitants
3 +1 other households (moradores)
3 (family) retainer
References
Las fuentes para el estudio de la poblacion Navarra del antiguo régimen
Change log

Mar 12, 2011 17:41: liz askew changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/55340">Robert Forstag's</a> old entry - "moradores (medieval Spain)"" to ""other residents""

Discussion

DLyons Mar 8, 2011:
From FVS' reference "Vecino" ... cualquier habitante de Alba y su tierra. Incluso "Morador" se emplea también como sinónimo de habitante.

Pero in ningún caso ... constatamos una estricta asociación entre vecino = proprietrio y ... morador = no proprietrio, aldeano, de baja condición, por otro.
Parrot Mar 7, 2011:
From around the period You have this reference http://www.euskomedia.org/PDFAnlt/vasconia/vas15/15135150.pd... which backs what Christine says about the cabildos (or concejos) and gives a few more details.
Christine Walsh Mar 7, 2011:
However, the servants and/or slaves were probably just as permanent as their masters, as in this area slaves were mostly house servants: no agriculture then.
Christine Walsh Mar 7, 2011:
If colonial Buenos Aires is anything to go by (similar time frame) I think David's suggestion comes closest. It was the 'vecinos' who met in the Cabildo and voted to terminate their dependence on Spain while José Bonaparte was in control. So I don't think 'vecino' includes temporary inhabitants, servants, or in that time slaves. They were probably the heads of well-established families (no women in the Cabildo, of course!!) Family members, though, would be counted in the census, I imagine
Eileen Banks Mar 7, 2011:
intr.v. dwelt (dw lt) or dwelled, dwell·ing, dwells. 1. To live as a resident; reside. 2. To exist in a given place or state: dwell in joy. ...
www.thefreedictionary.com/dweller -
FVS (X) Mar 7, 2011:
See for some references of the time..... This, which is my best reference and it seems that vecinos were the common folk and the moradores the posher folk.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Ci972taUF8kC&pg=PA114&lpg...

Haven't time to read it but I think this may have the answer.

Yes, this definitely has the answer to the question but by gum it's a bit complicated.
FVS (X) Mar 7, 2011:
This reminds me of the polemica in Wales when I lived there and the permanent residents were burning down the second homes of second home owning temporary residents.
philgoddard Mar 7, 2011:
David That's a helpful definition. If this is the 17th century, a lot of people (even those who weren't particularly wealthy) had servants living with them.
David Brown Mar 7, 2011:
Morador y vecino Taken from:
http://www.urrunaga.com/weberria/uploads/jau/veredas.pdf

2.1.- Familia Vecinal: Persona o conjunto de personas que conviven bajo un mismo techo dentro del término del Concejo, debiendo al menos uno de sus miembros estar inscrito en el Padrón Concejil por residir más de siete meses al año en el Concejo.
2.2.- Moradores: Persona o conjunto de personas que, unidas o no por lazos familiares, poseen por cualquier título, alguna vivienda dentro del mismo, se encuentren o no inscritas en el padrón municipal
Robert Forstag (asker) Mar 7, 2011:
@Phil I agree. The point is to see the relationship of two terms within a very specific contexts and therefore, in my view, separate entries are counterproductive.

Be that as it may, I saw your previous comment, and that also was my first thought (i.e., that "moradores" referred to temporary residents).
philgoddard Mar 7, 2011:
Hi Robert I think this is a rare example of when it's more logical to ask for both terms in one question. Did your previous question get deleted? Anyway, I suggested that it might mean people staying there temporarily when the census was carried out.

Proposed translations

+2
4 mins
Selected

residents

i.e. who are not born and bred in the community in question

me parece...

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Note added at 15 mins (2011-03-07 17:10:47 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

here

temporary residents

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=sD_RAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA504&lpg...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 mins (2011-03-07 17:11:11 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

look under sojourner

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Note added at 19 mins (2011-03-07 17:14:18 GMT)
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[PDF] Theoretical Concerns: Understanding Social Consciousness
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat
by A Cole - 2007
the accommodations for the moradores (temporary rural workers hired by the ... residents hold most of their meetings and eventually will be the site of a ...
digitalcollections.sit.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1241&context=isp..

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 mins (2011-03-07 17:15:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

so

temporary residents
Peer comment(s):
neutral David Brown : I think the difference is to do with being registered (padronado)..em----I missed ou the ..em
9 mins
neutral FVS (X) : Your link suggests temporary residents. The difference seems to be between permanent and temporary resdents of the location.
22 mins
Yes, I am suggesting temporary residents as my answer.
agree elena ry : En una traducción similar sobre Sevilla, hablan de "residents and dwellers"
15 hrs
agree Dr Trevor Stack : I think resident is the right term but NOT in the sense of temporary. More like "mere residents" as opposed to "citizens" (see my answer under "vecinos").
17 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "The meaning, based on Elena's reference and other materials I've looked at, seems to be "other residents" (i.e., non-property-owners who are not forming an integral part of the households of property owners. Once again, thanks to all who answered and commented on this query."
+1
13 mins

inhabitants

This might be the trail: parishioners and inhabitants. During this period there were two forms of census-taking: one by households and other by parishioners of individual parishes. Exactly how the counts differed and meshed I can't quite figure out. The difference may be due to the varying demarcations (counties, towns, etc.) asopposed to the demarcation of a parish. [PDF]
tot l'any todo el año all year round Im ganzen Jahr toute l'année ...
Formato de archivo: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Vista rápida
used to protect the local parishioners and inhabitants from the harsh weather conditions as well as from the numerous invasions and pirate attacks that were ...
www.pimef.es/__misc/Agabinete/7-1.pdf
Peer comment(s):
agree Eileen Banks : or dwellers... :)
32 mins
Thanks Eileen. Getting into the midset of the Middle Ages is difficult!
Something went wrong...
+1
4 hrs

other households (moradores)

For this context, of course. I read the link posted by FVS, and it appears that these are the people who, for whatever reason, fail to meet the criterion of vecino. They could be slaves or newly arrived. But they don't own property and they are not listed on the current tax roll.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs (2011-03-08 05:31:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Thanks to Charles we now realize that it's about households in both cases.

Going one step further, I'd like to change my answer to 'other householdERS' - because back in those days the only person who had any official capacity was the head of household. The women, children, and slaves didn't vote or transact business in the name of the household.
Peer comment(s):
agree Charles Davis : On reflection I agree that "households" would be better. By the way, the source document goes on to say "Las casas enumeradas son 212", which is almost exactly 141 + 73.
1 hr
Though 'households' in census terms does not imply owning the property. I think in this case, from the explanation in the text, it's about households, not individuals.
Something went wrong...
1 day 2 hrs

(family) retainer

Not family but with long-term residence..
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

16 hrs
Reference:

Las fuentes para el estudio de la poblacion Navarra del antiguo régimen

www.navarra.es/appsext/bnd/GN_Ficheros_PDF_Binadi.aspx?Fichero...

No todos los cabezas de familia son vecinos. El carácter de vecino está reservado
para aquéllos que poseen casa vecinal, lo que trae aparejado el disfrute de los derechos
de utilización del suelo común en la forma que regulan las ordenanzas, y de los
derechos políticos en el Valle y Universidad como asistir a las Juntas Generales, elegir
alcalde 4 y ser considerado hidalgo en razón del título de hidalguía colectiva
reconocido en 1440 a Baztán en una sentencia sobre la pretensión del Rey de cobrar
quintas por el pasto de ganado de cerda proveniente de zonas próximas al Valle
(Libro, 1885). Aquellos que no tienen reconocido el carácter de vecinos debían
arrendar una casa y trabajar en algún oficio o con tierras arrendadas, recibiendo el
nombre de «moradores», «habitantes» o «caseros» según los casos. Ésta distinción
aparece en la citada Instrucción de 1642 cuando indica:
«... admitiendo que vecino se entiende aquel que tuviere casa propia y morador o habitante
el que viviere en casa ajena...».

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 18 hrs (2011-03-08 11:38:00 GMT)
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http://research-repository.st-andrews.ac.uk/bitstream/10023/...

In it, not only does the king grant a list of rights to the residents of Seville
(vezinos de Seuilla) and also issue a Knight’s Charter (priuilegios de los caualleros
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree liz askew : Great reference, wish I had seen this earlier. We need to use this to get the right translation.
2 hrs
I found it yesterday, but sent the wrong one (sorry). Also found a translation "residents and dwellers" in this thesis (see note)
Something went wrong...
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