This site uses cookies. Some of these cookies are essential to the operation of the site, while others help to improve your experience by providing insights into how the site is being used. For more information, please see the ProZ.com privacy policy.
Cookie settings
privé d'effet utile
un bas de cycle d'investissements

Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

un bâton de commandement

English translation:

scepter

Added to glossary by Richardson Lisa
Mar 21, 2010 11:09
14 yrs ago
2 viewers *
French term

un bâton de commandement

French to English Art/Literary Anthropology
This is from a list of attributes of the king of the Kingdom of Kongo. I'm thinking it's a sceptre, but the term doesn't really seem appropriate, although I suppose he is a king?
TIA
Lisa
Proposed translations (English)
3 +2 scepter
4 pierced baton
4 ceremonial staff
4 baton (of office)
3 staff
2 bâton de commandement
References
"explorers sailed into the strong curren...

Discussion

Richardson Lisa (asker) Mar 23, 2010:
many thanks SJLD
SJLD Mar 23, 2010:
Sorry for the delay. Yes, he confirms "sceptre".
SJLD Mar 21, 2010:
Spelling Sceptre for UK, scepter for US.
Richardson Lisa (asker) Mar 21, 2010:
thanks Many thanks to all for your input. At this stage scepter( with the English spelling seems most likely)Isn't that size thing just a myth???? And yes SJLD, I can wait until tomorrow, it would be great to hear what your friend thinks.
SJLD Mar 21, 2010:
@Lisa If you can wait until tomorrow I can check with my Congolese friend who knows heaps about the kingdom of Kongo (he has lots of books about it).
B D Finch Mar 21, 2010:
Size is everything! A ceremonial (or other) staff is long enough to lean on, so must be at least more than, say, 1 metre in length. A sceptre is something shorter that is carried only as a symbol of royal authority and is not useable as an aid to standing or walking. Dina's reference clearly shows a smallish sceptre from the Kingdom of Kongo, as does SJLD's. I hasten to add that I am unaware of any family connection with Finch & Co. - never heard of them before!
SJLD Mar 21, 2010:
I'd go for "sceptre" which is defined as a "rod of command" or "staff of authority"
Nice one here: http://www.finch-and-co.co.uk/art-and-antiques/detail/62407
SJLD Mar 21, 2010:
not antlers pics here
http://www.galion-import.com/spip.php?article411
Richardson Lisa (asker) Mar 21, 2010:
Staff V sceptre I'm wondering if this is a question of length? A staff seems longer than a sceptre in most images. Both can be carved in wood or metal, and some are made from animal teeth or tusks.
Jonathan MacKerron Mar 21, 2010:
@thanks then we can be more or less sure that it is a real bâton de commandement made of antler, perhaps "bâton de commandement (antler staff)"??
Richardson Lisa (asker) Mar 21, 2010:
the whole sentence Hi Jonathan
Here's the whole sentence - it's just a list
'Quand il rend la justice, il est assis sur une peau de léopard, porte un collier de dents , un chapeau, un bâton de commandement et un éventail. '
Jonathan MacKerron Mar 21, 2010:
hard to say without more context do you have a sentence please??

Proposed translations

+2
1 hr
Selected

scepter

OR royal scepter

King António's young son of seven years was captured. After the battle, the head of the king or Manikongo was buried with ceremony by the Portuguese in the chapel of Our Lady of Nazareth situated on the Bay of Luanda, and the crown and scepter of Kongo were sent to Lisbon as trophies.

See image: http://www.nmafa.si.edu/exhibits/treasures/artwork1.html

the terme 'bâton de commandement' is cited in dictionary. But I am note sure that it is commonly used.
Reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mbwila

Peer comment(s):
agree Stephanie Ezrol : another reference: http://www.metmuseum.org/TOAH/hd/kong/ho_1978.412.657.htm
10 hrs
agree Tony.J.A.@DT : oui
1 day 2 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "many thanks"
3 mins

bâton de commandement

if the link is to be believed
Reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A2ton_de_commandement

Peer comment(s):
neutral Catharine Cellier-Smart : if we believe the link this only applies to prehistoric items// Kongo was 1400-1914 so not prehistoric; also, will the average (non-French speaking) reader know what a "baton de commandement" is ... ?
5 mins
agree Rebecca Davis : I think this is the correct archaeological term here
6 mins
disagree B D Finch : Your own reference says that this applies to "a particular prehistoric artifact of uncertain function" and it refers to European pre-history. In this case, the function seems to be known and it is not pre-history.
2 hrs
Something went wrong...
9 mins

pierced baton

In prehistoric contexts, the term is "pierced baton". In your later historical context I am not 100% sure that the same term is used.
Something went wrong...
8 mins

staff

both a status symbol and a weapon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staff_(stick)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 mins (2010-03-21 11:22:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

OK this is a video game, but you get the idea
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Jones_and_the_Staff_of_...
Peer comment(s):
neutral Jonathan MacKerron : by defnition, these are pieces of antler; staff is not descriptive enough
2 mins
Something went wrong...
33 mins

ceremonial staff

Or, tribal ceremonial staff

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 34 minutes (2010-03-21 11:44:11 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://images.google.fr/imgres?imgurl=http://images.oneofaki...
Something went wrong...
3 hrs

baton (of office)

According to the Oxford French-English Dictionary:

bâton de commandement: baton (of office)
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

2 hrs
Reference:

"explorers sailed into the strong current of the Congo river, whose ..... is worthy of notice that the King of Kongo in those days held the title ... supplied by the Government, and in his hand he held a silver sceptre; ... With a long spear in his hand, a fine leopard-skin dangling in ..."
Reference:

http://www.jstor.org/stable/1777621

Something went wrong...
Close search
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search