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évangélisation du marché
Jun 19, 2009 09:11
14 yrs ago
1 viewer *
French term

bouilleur de cru

French to English Other Business/Commerce (general)
would home distiller be a correct translation???
Proposed translations (English)
4 +2 heritage distiller
4 grower-distiller
4 jobbing distiller
3 small-scale private distillers
3 artisan distiller
3 moonshiner
References
home distiller
not a linguistic authority, but an interesting overview in English
Change log

Jun 20, 2009 07:46: Stéphanie Soudais changed "Field (specific)" from "Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting" to "Business/Commerce (general)"

Discussion

Michael GREEN Jun 19, 2009:
Delighted ... If I do impose myself on you, Bourth, I'll try to find a bottle of my neighbour's nectar to bring along - or failing that, a bottle of Ardbeg ...
I'm happy to agree with you on Père Magloire (which doesn't even clean my brass very effectively).
Bourth (X) Jun 19, 2009:
Calvados tasting When I say "commercial calvados", I'm not talking about the Père Magloire rubbish you get in supermarkets, but what is produced by distilleries like Anée/Buisnel, or what is lovingly aged in some local cellars and sold under various names. If you're ever this side of Evreux, Michael, drop by Bourth and we'll have a session tasting my selection!
Michael GREEN Jun 19, 2009:
Cru .... @ Helen, Bourth, et al... With all respect to the other side of Evreux ...
I have always understood "cru" in "bouilleur du cru" (not bouilleur du terroir, fortunately : how to translate "terroir" into English remains one of life's mysteries to me) to have the meaning of "local/local area"" simply because the "bouilleurs" have almost always been country people producing for their local area (and whether or not they were authorised to sell it, there was always an element of exchange in the giving). It cannot mean "cru" in the wine-making sense, and I have my doubts about "grossier, peu raffiné", because some of the Calvados so produced was (is, if you're lucky enough to find some) sublime. Far better than the junk sold in shops. But I have no experience of the strong liquor distilled by bouilleurs du cru in other regions...
"Non-commercial distiller" hardly has the romantic parfum of "bouilleur du cru" ....
Helen Shiner Jun 19, 2009:
@ Vaughn I take your point about 'private' - for private use or non-commercial might be a way round it. Not licensed for re-sale in brackets.
Helen Shiner Jun 19, 2009:
@ Bourth but what about premier cru? In wine-making terms, cru literally means 'growth'.
David Vaughn Jun 19, 2009:
Cru As in les grands crus ? ;-)
Big Bob says it comes from "de son propre cru" ie do it yourself
David Vaughn Jun 19, 2009:
Private Unfortunately, private doesn't really mean private in English. What's a 'private business', 'private enterprise', 'private school', etc etc? Maybe "non-commercial distiller", though the itinerant B de Cru are commercial. "Distiller for private use"?
Bourth (X) Jun 19, 2009:
Humm from the other side of Evreux ... Maybe I'm too literary, but I have never associated this "cru" with "terroir", but with the sense of "violente, sans atténuation" (lumière crue, mot cru, monter à cru) and what Lexis gives as its "CLASS. et LITT." meaning, "grossier, peu raffiné". Used adjectivally in these instances, of course, but in the cement industry "cru" refers to either the raw rock prior to calcining or to the raw clinker afterwards. Either way, it requires further processing to become the "refined" finished product.
Michael GREEN Jun 19, 2009:
Humm ... Helen makes a good point - we ought not to lose sight of the meaning of "cru" here - it means "local" or "home-produced", and I don't think there is a direct equivalent in EN, because in the UK, USA etc it is illegal to distill strong alcohol, even for personal use.
"Small-scale private distillers" (with a footnote if necessary) seems a good solution to this Calvados drinker, anyway ...
Helen Shiner Jun 19, 2009:
How would small-scale private distillers sit with everyone? Or even just private distillers? Perhaps the rest is evident from the context, which we have not seen, or could be explained briefly in brackets or a footnote, if needs must.
Michael GREEN Jun 19, 2009:
Yes but ... (bis) As I implied, and as Vaughn points out, "bouilleurs du cru" were/are (some still exist here in Normandy, if not elsewhere) exercising a legal right - they are just not allowed to sell the stuff.<br>I don't like "country distillers" or "farm distillers" much either, on reflection (and anyway I should have proposed them as an answer, not a discussion point), but I think "home distiller" is way off the mark.<br>AFAIK, "Moonshiner" is a N.A. term, and "moonshine" is certainly illegal, often dangerous to health. I agree that it would be misleading here (though not all bouilleurs du cru produce nectar - one of my other neighbours gave me some home-distilled Calvados that I used to use for cleaning our brassware ...).
polyglot45 Jun 19, 2009:
it tends to conjure up notions of "alambics" for me.... shades of a trip to Réunion... but it would be nice to have more context so as to be able to tell what sort of activity - legal or not - is going on here
David Vaughn Jun 19, 2009:
I'm not too fond of the terms "country distillers" or "farm distillers". Even today, stills can be seen in villages, and any connection to a farm or country environment is incidental, not part of the definition.
David Vaughn Jun 19, 2009:
Bouilleurs de cru refers to a legally authorized production of hard liquor, a right extended to certain people for service rendered. Moonshine is a priori illegal. Using moonshine would give a false idea, even if there may be some overlap, concerning the production process and quality.
Michael GREEN Jun 19, 2009:
Yes but ... Most "bouilleurs du cru" (like my neighbour's parents) were farmers or country-dwellers, and I think "home distillers" suggests a pot still in somebody's suburban lounge ..
I suggest "country distillers" or "farm distillers" as an alternative.
"Moonshiners" (as the name suggests) operated after the sun had gone down, in various odd places, while bouilleurs du cru acted (legally) in their own outhouses or barns.
And the excellent Calvados produced by my neighbour's father (of which I still have a small stock) is certainly not "moonshine".
polyglot45 Jun 19, 2009:
true, the dictionary gives this but there are really overtones of "moonshining", even though the word" clandestin" is not used.
Normally the beverage produced by "bouilleurs de cru" is "moonshine"

Proposed translations

+2
2 hrs
Selected

heritage distiller

Not easy to put in a few words in English because it is so associated with French history and culture.

I am also assuming your bouilleurs de cru are the legal variety, a dying breed.

The right to legally distill spirits was attributed I don't know when, then there was a turnaround and it was decided to no longer allow it. As a result, the people entitled so to do are getting on in years (in their eighties or so), and the right cannot be passed on. So there's a notion of heritage. Maybe "heritage distiller" in quote marks.

Definitely a "heritage" thing, something one enjoys for its quaintness, its "home-spun-ness". Certainly the home-produced calvados I've drunk in my part of Normandy is rubbish compared to commercial produce. Much of it has never so much as touched the inside of a wooden cask or mellowed in any way. Much of it smells and tastes not at all of apples, which good young calvados will, but of raw, unadulterated alcohol. It's something you drink to get drunk quickly on, or to savour the last remnants of an age very soon gone by.
Note from asker:
a nice idea...it might work, thank you!
Peer comment(s):
agree Michael GREEN : Sorry about your bad luck with local Calva - I'll have to find a bottle of my (now deceased) neighbour's Calva - when you pulled the cork the room filled with a scent of apples ... and to get back to the point, "heritage distiller" gets my vote.
1 hr
agree Helen Shiner : All info perused, I am tending towards this solution, even if a little allergic to 'heritage' in this instance (I bet the participants might also be/have been, too). Or should I say, all info distilled...?
2 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "there quite a few interesting and helpful ideas...but i think yours is the most original and elegant..."
58 mins

grower-distiller

The idea is that this person is not reselling a product he has bought, he is selling a product he has "grown" himself.
Reference:

http://www.thefiftybest.com/spirits/best_cognac/5/

Note from asker:
thank you!
Peer comment(s):
agree Jean-Louis S.
55 mins
neutral Michael GREEN : They don't necessarily grow it themselves - a long-standing tradition in Normandy is to take your crop of apples to the local "bouilleur du cru", who does the distilling for you (Calvados is distilled directly from apples).They are not allowed to sell
1 hr
disagree David Vaughn : As Michael points out, grower doesn't necessarily come into t, and this sounds commercial to me.
1 hr
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2 hrs

jobbing distiller

is how I've translated it in the past
Note from asker:
thank you!
Peer comment(s):
agree Bourth (X) : Yes, that's a notion I didn't go into, that many of these people tow their stills round on trailers to produce gnole for anyone who has a load of apples, plums, etc.
3 mins
disagree David Vaughn : Only refers to a fraction of the term.
8 mins
it's true that bouilleur de cru was quite special in that it was an inherited right, it depends on the context on how much you want/need to say. This solution is neat and unobtrusive but it doesn't have all the associations of the original term
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2 hrs

small-scale private distillers

As Michael says, this would need clarification for an EN readership either way, since such a practice is not permitted in the UK or US.

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Note added at 3 hrs (2009-06-19 12:21:37 GMT)
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small-scale distillers (not licensed for re-sale) perhaps?
Note from asker:
thank you!
Something went wrong...
3 hrs

artisan distiller

As I understand it, the BdC owes his identity to the peculiarities of French law and so has no direct equivalent. It could be a home distiller, a farm distiller, or a mobile distiller from what I can see. But all of them are using traditional methods to create spirits on a small scale, so "artisan distiller" provides some sort of all round description.

Hmmm, I too have memories of calvados aged in bottles containing nuts (of oak?), great for flambéed apple crêpes or indeed for replacing methylated spirits (lights well cold!).
Note from asker:
thank you! an other interesting idea...
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8 hrs

moonshiner

Strictly North American (Canada included), though.

Posted mainly to refute the notion that moonshine is always and everywhere illegal. In some states it is not: small-scale production for 'personal use' is permitted. And in jurisdictions that are not totally dry, it's always been about taxes on alcohol anyway. The guys who come round to shut down the clandestine stills are the Revenooers.

We Murricans don't go for inherited privilege. Oh wait -- excepting Maine lobstermen …
Note from asker:
thank you!
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Reference comments

3 hrs
Reference:

home distiller

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouilleur_de_cru

http://www.tourisme68.com/en/sejours-insolites-et-ludiques/d...

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/JOHtml.do?uri=OJ:C:1998:196:SOM:EN:...

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Note added at 3 heures (2009-06-19 12:37:15 GMT)
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http://www.laterre.fr/article.php3?id_article=430
and one more that shows that the pure alcohol is not for a commercial use.
In the past it was used in farms as an antiseptic for to cure animals.
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3 hrs
Reference:

not a linguistic authority, but an interesting overview in English

Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree Michael GREEN : Thank you Susan - a fascinating link - and I learn that it is legal in New Zealand - good place to retire to, too ...
22 mins
Thanks, Michael
agree Helen Shiner : all you could ever wish to know on the subject, bar tasting the product.
1 hr
Thanks, Helen
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