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Thanks goes to or thanks go to
Sep 26, 2008 05:45
15 yrs ago
4 viewers *
English term

to give cards and spades

Non-PRO Not for points English Art/Literary Poetry & Literature
it is used ina short story . the context is:
A WOMAN RENDERED SOME SELECTIONS WHICH SHE SAID WAS OPERA, BUT WHATEVER THEY WAS MY DAUTHER COULD HAVE GIVE HER CARDS AND SPADES AND NOT MADE SUCH A HABALLOO ABOUT IT.
Responses
3 +3 beat sb, be better than sb.
5 Cards and spades = accolades, applauded her
References
The original context is from a story cal...

Discussion

David Moore (X) Sep 27, 2008:
Sorry, Gary, but I can't get the site you quoted. Anyway, surely you can accept that this particular American writer isn't trying to write "good English"? See debrite's reference?
Gary D Sep 27, 2008:
And did you read this?
http://www.archive.org/stream/thirtyseventhnat015866mbp/thir...
There are fellows in this organization that can give me cards and spades only because they have 30 years of service in the organization. His peers can applaud
Gary D Sep 27, 2008:
and so what has any card game got to do with this David ? "AND NOT MADE SUCH A HABALLOO ABOUT IT." Post an answer David, don't sit on the fence and throw eggs.
Bridge is the biggest card game in the world as Retired people play it. A bit like lawn bowls
David Moore (X) Sep 27, 2008:
The game Gary D is quoting is seemingly little-known ("American 500") - see google - 9,000 or so hits, against contract bridge (280,000 hits). See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract_bridge for priority of suits, which I was quoting.
Gary D Sep 27, 2008:
David, your theory that spades is the highest and cannot be beaten is totally incorrect. If you would supply an answer it might be more helpful than trying to grasp at straws.
Gary D Sep 27, 2008:
David, As you can see Spades is the lowest suit in most card games. http://everything2.com/e2node/American%20500
According to your theory, What then does this mean? "AND NOT MADE SUCH A HABALLOO ABOUT IT" because it is the opposite to "cards and spades"
Gary D Sep 27, 2008:
Higher means either more tricks, or the same number of tricks in a higher suit. For this purpose No trumps are highest, followed by Hearts, Diamonds, Clubs, and Spades (lowest). Thus the lowest possible bid is Six Spades and the highest is Ten No Trump.
David Moore (X) Sep 27, 2008:
suits. Thus to give so. sth. in spades is to give them something which cannot be beaten, refuted, or what you will.
David Moore (X) Sep 27, 2008:
Gary D: although your conclusion is not illogical, it is based on a false premise - that the expression is to be taken literally. Here the use of spades is IMO an oblique reference to the fact that the spade suit in cards is senior suit, beating all other
Gary D Sep 26, 2008:
To give something in Spades = to give a lot of something, Ie: a spade full of something.
a spade is a different form of shovel, hand implement for moving dirt, etc
spadeful= The quantity a shovel can hold
Gary D Sep 26, 2008:
It is colloquial speak, I hear it about 10 times a year, Maybe we need to know where the author was born and raised.
David Moore (X) Sep 26, 2008:
airmailpl: probably because M.G is unfamiliar with the site (this is supposed to be the first posting), and (s)he may be worried that points cost money... That aside, M.G, do feel free to register and take part and welcome to ProZ.
airmailrpl Sep 26, 2008:
Why is This a "not-for-points" question ??
Ramesh Bhatt Sep 26, 2008:
Does the text actually read: BUT WHATEVER THEY WERE, MY DAUGHTER COULD HAVE GIVEN HER CARDS AND SPADES (FOR THEM) AND NOT MADE ANY HULLABALOO ABOUT THEM.

Responses

+3
35 mins
Selected

beat sb, be better than sb.

I think that's what it means. Here's a definition I found (the original expression is "give cards IN spades"):

†Term from the card game called Casino. There are 11 points possible in this game (not counting "sweeps"). "Cards" (taking most tricks) counts 3 points. "Spades" (taking most of the suit) counts 1. To "give cards in spades" is, therefore, to give a 36% handicap. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,737058,00.h...
Peer comment(s):
agree Jack Doughty
36 mins
agree NancyLynn : yes - cards IN spades
1 hr
disagree Gary D : Cards and spades = accolades,
1 hr
agree David Moore (X) : Derived I think form the expression "to give so. sth. in spades" - in other words with heavy emphasis.
6 hrs
agree jccantrell : How I would understand this, too. Never heard "cards AND spades" in the USA.
9 hrs
neutral Demi Ebrite : I did a little digging, please see reference comments.
15 hrs
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Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
2 hrs

Cards and spades = accolades, applauded her

BUT WHATEVER THEY WAS MY DAUTHER COULD HAVE GIVE HER CARDS AND SPADES AND NOT MADE SUCH A HABALLOO ABOUT IT.

Should be ::
BUT WHATEVER IT WAS MY DAUGHTER SHE COULD HAVE GIVEN HER CARDS AND SPADES AND NOT MADE SUCH A HABALLOO ABOUT IT.

Cards and spades = accolades, applauded her

HABALLOO = a big fuss, created a stir, complained a lot

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Note added at 2 hrs (2008-09-26 08:16:59 GMT)
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It is just slang. don't read too much into it. No doubt the rest of the text will have rhyming slang that means something it sounds like.


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Note added at 3 hrs (2008-09-26 09:19:32 GMT)
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BUT WHENEVER IT WAS MY DAUGHTER SHE COULD HAVE GIVEN HER CARDS AND SPADES AND NOT MADE SUCH A HABALLOO ABOUT IT.

yes or this. from Ramesh Bhatt:

BUT WHATEVER THEY WERE, MY DAUGHTER COULD HAVE GIVEN HER CARDS AND SPADES (FOR THEM/ TO THEM) AND NOT MADE ANY HULLABALOO ABOUT THEM.


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Note added at 16 hrs (2008-09-26 22:28:21 GMT)
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To come up trumps, = to come out on top, win, be the best, have a win.
Although "Trumps is a card playing term, it is also used as slang or colloquially speaking.
other examples;
a lay down marzare, a card playing term meaning win hands down.
she aced her opponent, she beat her convincingly.
he topped out with his performance, he did the very best he could do.
he hit them for a six. hit a home run with his portrayal of King Lear.
=did a great job.
he knocked them dead with a beautiful rendition of Bach. did a superb performance.
references;
http://www.archive.org/stream/thirtyseventhnat015866mbp/thir...
I have only been a disabled veteran since 1944. There are fellows in this organization that can give me cards and spades only because they have 30 years of service in the organization. But I know what is done. And I am the one making the report, so don't stop me in the hall and say to me, "Joe, our pub- licity department doesn't do anything," because I am tired of hearing it. I am giving you my report now. Bother me about something




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Note added at 17 hrs (2008-09-26 22:56:06 GMT)
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Hi, debrite we have to also think what is the opposite of HABALLOO.
haballoo is .. causing a stir, criticizing, causing a ruckus, being very critical. please refer to my posted link.
Wikipedia...The word hullabaloo is an English noun meaning an uproar or fuss.
Peer comment(s):
agree Ramesh Bhatt
2 hrs
Thank you
disagree David Moore (X) : Not any slang I've ever heard...and certainly not proper "rhyming slang"
5 hrs
It is colloquial speak, I hear it about 10 times a year, Maybe we need to know where the author was born and raised.
neutral Demi Ebrite : I don't think so, Gary. If you read the story, you may see it differently, URL in ref. His sports writing and satirical fiction were very different from one another.
13 hrs
being a sports writer then he would definatly have used it to term accolades, It is a commom term used in sports media.
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

7 hrs
Reference:

The original context is from a story called "The Golden Honeymoon" by Ring Lardner, first published Cosmopolitan, 73 (July, 1922), 59-64.

Interestingly, the dialogue in this story is spoken by white, not African American persons, and the narrator is male. In the story, the card game being played is called 'Five Hundred'.

I believe the expression in question means that the daughter thinks that the woman presenting 'grand opera selections' (of music) made a big deal about it, and she, herself could have cared less....

"When we had been down there about two weeks, we spent one evening as their guest in the Congregational Church, at a social give by the Michigan Society. A talk was made by a man named Bitting of Detroit, Michigan, on How I was Cured of Story Telling. He is a big man in the Rotarians and give a witty talk.

A woman named Mrs. Oxford rendered some selections which Mrs. Hartsell said was grand opera music, but whatever they was my daughter Edie could of give her cards and spades and not made such a hullaballoo about it neither. "



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Note added at 16 hrs (2008-09-26 21:51:13 GMT)
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http://www.online-literature.com/ring-lardner/

Author: Ring Lardner
1885-1933
Sports writer and writer if satirical fiction
Reference:

http://www.ibiblio.org/eldritch/rl/goldhm.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/500_(card_game)

Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree David Moore (X) : Writer "of" satirical...well researched! I think this is not to be taken as "good" English in any case, so the expression (mis)quoted is also clearly wrong; look at "could of given", for example, to see that the speaker is totally uneducated.
21 hrs
Thank you, David. Lardner wrote several pieces such as this one, poking fun at a particular class of Americans around the turn of the 20th century.
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