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Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

laisser pétrir la pâte

English translation:

mix on low (in a mixer)

Added to glossary by French Foodie
Aug 27, 2008 06:41
15 yrs ago
French term

laisser pétrir la pâte

French to English Art/Literary Cooking / Culinary
This is from a recipe for "accras de morue" (type of cod fritter)

Dans un blender, mélanger la morue, la farine et les œufs. Saler et pimenter. Ajouter les oignons, l’ail, la coriandre, les graines de vanille et la levure.
Laisser pétrir la pâte 10 minutes. Si besoin est, ajuster la consistance avec un peu de lait afin d’obtenir une pâte légèrement élastique.

My problem is with the "laisser pétrir". When kneading in a food processor, most recipes say to pour the liquid ingredients in while the blade is turning, give a few swipes of the blade, and then let the dough rest and "come together" on its own for about 10 minutes, another swipe or two of the blade and it's done.
I'm wondering if that's what they mean by the "laisser petrir" - because 10 minutes of kneading in the processor would produce something awful!
Or perhaps it is kneading by hand for 10 minutes, which is plausible, but then why the "laisser"?

Many thanks in advance to all you chefs out there!
Proposed translations (English)
4 blend / beat
4 +3 leave to stand/rest
5 +1 let the dough mold for 10 minutes....
4 +1 knead or let it rest/rise
3 knead the dough

Discussion

French Foodie (asker) Aug 28, 2008:
Thanks for all the answers and interesting discussion. Given the difference of opinions, and sound arguments for both sides, I felt it was best to ask the chef himself.
It turns out that france japon had it right in her peer comment to mimi. "Laisser petrir" is used because it is indeed the machine that does the "kneading". Basically, it is set to mix on low for ten minutes. I then found other recipes that use this technique, including a very informative video recipe, which clearly showed the mixer with a hook attachment for kneading, and said to "mix on low for 8 to 10 minutes until it is a smooth, elastic consistency".
As for the dough/batter debate, which actually wasn't part of my question, but makes for interesting discussion nonetheless: since the mixture is "of medium consistency" it's really on the border of dough or batter. I've seen an equal number of accra recipes speak of dough and batter. To skirt the issue, I'm neutrally referring to it as a mixture, which is also frequently used in recipes.
Thanks to everyone once again.
Rachel Fell Aug 28, 2008:
milk We would need to see the proportions of the recipe to try and assess what the consistency'd be like; I agree about the 10 minutes - maybe "set aside for 10 minutes" and if the mixture looks too thick add a bit more milk
Shannon Summers Aug 27, 2008:
Here's the problem This is a key sentence: "Si besoin est, ajuster la consistance avec un peu de lait...". First of all, you wouldn't adjust the consistency by adding milk if the dough was resting. And as others said, resting for 10 minutes wouldn't really do much; and "afin d’obtenir une pâte légèrement élastique" usually means that the dough has been kneaded enough to stretch the glutens so that they harden and thus gives the dough an elastic characteristic. This can only be done by kneading, NOT resting. So my vote is for kneading.
Sheila Wilson Aug 27, 2008:
A batter must be left to rest, but not kneaded Accras are definitely fritters, made from a thick batter which is left to stand for a while, as is always the case with a good batter.
Emma Paulay Aug 27, 2008:
Bread machine The only refs I can see for "laisser pétrir 10 mins", are about leaving a bread dough to mix in a machine... Here's one in En: http://countyext.okstate.edu/kingfisher/fcs.htm
emiledgar Aug 27, 2008:
Pétrir - a different meaning In this case, pétrir means "to let smthg take shape" or "to mold". After a brief kneading, you let the dough take shape or mold in the blender. This is a separate but related meaning for "pétrir." Camille Abou Jamra is correct I think.
Angeliki Papadopoulou Aug 27, 2008:
According to Grand dictionnaire, "cette opération (pétrir) rend les pâtes à levure plus élastiques. Cet effet est dû au travail de la paume de la main qui presse sur la pâte après chaque pliage. Pour les pains à la poudre à pâte, on pétrit légèrement avec le bout des doigts. But in a food processor?
Shannon Summers Aug 27, 2008:
Gut instinct I'm thinking you're right in that it's kneading by hand for 10 minutes - "laisser" could just be poor wording in French - I've seen that in recipes!

Proposed translations

18 mins
Selected

blend / beat

Salt cod fritters are made using a batter, not a dough. In French 'mixer' would probably been a better choice over 'pétrir'.

http://fooddownunder.com/cgi-bin/recipe.cgi?r=1232

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Note added at 22 hrs (2008-08-28 05:15:12 GMT)
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The ones I've made were definately from a thick batter, not a dough but then recipes do vary. As has been noted before on many occaisions chefs are not necessarily the best writers so it would probably be best to clarify.
I feel that many of us go further in our translations than should be humanly expected and move towards interpretation which, though laudable, could proove risky.
Note from asker:
Hi Melzie, thanks for your help. My problem is I can't imagine mixing *anything* for a full ten minutes in blender. I don't recall these being liquid enough to be referred to as batter (something you can drop with a spoon), they're shaped into little balls, which makes me think more of a dough.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "This answer comes closest to the chef's explanation of "mix on low". Many thanks to everyone and also to france japon who hit the hail on the head in her peer comment."
+1
5 mins

let the dough mold for 10 minutes....

This is my suggestion...
Peer comment(s):
agree emiledgar : Yes, pétrir, in this case, "to mold", "to take shape" (to rest and form)
54 mins
neutral Sheila Wilson : That sounds really odd in British English - may or may not be a problem here
4 hrs
Something went wrong...
1 hr

knead the dough

As you say, you can't possibly leave it in the blender for 10 minutes. If you want the dough to become elastic, I don't think that just leaving it to mold for 10 mins would change much. The only way to get something that has just been mixed to become an elastic dough is to knead it, and 10 mins would be about right.

Posted by a home-made bread enthusiast !

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Note added at 1 hr (2008-08-27 08:08:33 GMT)
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Mmm, but then again, dough wouldn't make "fritters", would it? Can accras be accurately translated at fritters? I've had some which have been rather dry and doughy... but maybe they weren't authentic ones!
Note from asker:
No, you're absolutely right about fritters, which are generally pieces of meat or veg fried in batter. These are more fishcakes (dico: a round fried cake made of shredded fish). I just used fritter here for clarification purposes, but in my recipe translation I plan to leave the French with "a Creole fishcake" in brackets. Thanks for your help!
Something went wrong...
+1
1 hr

knead or let it rest/rise

Je crois que "laisser pétrir" est mal dit. On pétrit la pâte ou on la laisse reposer.

Pétrir: opération qui rend les pâtes à levure plus élastiques. Cet effet est dû au travail de la paume de la main qui presse sur la pâte après chaque pliage. Pour les pains à la poudre à pâte, on pétrit légèrement avec le bout des doigts.

Je pense donce que c'est soit "laisser reposer 10 minutes", ce qui est plus indiqué = let it rest/rise

ou "pétrir pendant 10 minutes", ce qui est un peu difficile à mon avis = knead for 10 minutes
Peer comment(s):
agree Geraldine Oudin : comme je ne pense pas que 10 petites minutes de repos aient un effet intéressant pour les accras, je penche plutôt pour pétrir. ps : est il possible qu'il s'agisse d'un robot avec les fouets à pâte et non un mixer? auquel cas laisser pétrir fonctionne
6 hrs
Something went wrong...
+3
2 hrs

leave to stand/rest

I think it can only mean this - it's a sort of thick batter rather than a dough, I'd have thought


Instructions for Accras De Morue (Codfish Fritters)
Sift flour and salt into bowl. Beat eggs with butter and add to flour mixture. Add milk gradually, stirring only to mix. Add more milk if batter is too stiff. Cover, allow to stand 3 hours. Meanwhile, soak fish in cold water. Drain, remove bones and skin. Pound fish in mortar with hot pepper. Add scallions, garlic, parsley, thyme, allspice, and black pepper to taste. Stir into batter and stand 30 minutes. Heat oil in deep fryer....

http://www.bigoven.com/15917-Accras-De-Morue-(Codfish-Fritte...

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Note added at 2 hrs (2008-08-27 09:29:58 GMT)
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I mean, it's left in the blender, isn't it?
In this recipe it's left for much longer, but still, and it's not in a blender but a bowl.

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Note added at 3 hrs (2008-08-27 10:05:06 GMT)
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I think fritters sounds OK, or croquettes maybe? Fishcakes sound heavier to me.

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Note added at 1 day6 hrs (2008-08-28 12:54:38 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Interesting, as I wondered this a.m. whether it could involve dough hooks as in a food mixer, whereas I'd been picturing a liquidiser-type blender...

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Note added at 1 day6 hrs (2008-08-28 13:28:21 GMT) Post-grading
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the pictures here show both types: http://tinyurl.com/65er9h
Note from asker:
I agree, the chef's use of "blender" was confusing!
Peer comment(s):
agree anna purna : Yes, I think "let it rest" is right, in the way that you'd let pancake batter rest
17 mins
Thanks Anna - yes, and if I'm making it in a blender I leave it in there to rest (for more than 10 mins. usu. though)
agree Sheila Wilson : Yes, often an hour's rest is better, but recipes vary. You certainly wouldn't gain anything by beating it for 10 mins.
2 hrs
Yes, thank you Sheila :-) (I don't kow why they've used "pétrir" but it doesn't imply mixing to me)
agree Mina Yekta (X) : let it set (for 10 min.)
22 hrs
Thank you Mina
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