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lettere
congiuntamente ma non solidalmente
Jun 24, 2008 15:37
15 yrs ago
3 viewers *
Italian term

riporti

Italian to English Tech/Engineering Geology
It is a geologist's report for civil engineers. These are alluvial deposits on the fan of the river Mella at Brescia. It is the surface layer and goes down 5 m. "Fill", fine for construction, doesn't convince me and I'm not sure about "rubble". I did think of deposits, but all the layers below are also deposits. Ecco:

• Unità ghiaiosa– sabbiosa (UNITA’ R) (Pleistocene Sup. – Olocene)
Unità R:Riporti - natura caotica e eterometrica, con prevalenza di ghiaia poligenica evoluta con ciottoli, in presenza di abbondante matrice sabbioso limosa avana. Difficilmente la potenza di questo strato supera i 5 metri
Proposed translations (English)
4 alluvium
4 +1 fill
4 alluvial deposits (layers of)
3 Embankments
Change log

Jun 24, 2008 15:39: Adele Oliveri changed "Field" from "Bus/Financial" to "Tech/Engineering" , "Field (specific)" from "Finance (general)" to "Geology"

Discussion

Paul O'Brien Jun 26, 2008:
ma nemmeno di un deposito naturale nel senso generalmente accettato perché gli inerti (rifiuti inerti provenienti da scavi o demolizioni) sono troppo recenti e soprattutto anomali.
Paul O'Brien Jun 26, 2008:
o di quest’anno), che hanno interessato una discarica di inerti. Un termine per una condizione del genere credo che non l’abbiano ancora inventato. Non è un riempimento artificiale (artificial fill?) perché il tuo amico parla di genuine alluvium,
Paul O'Brien Jun 26, 2008:
glaciazioni al presente, ma se devo indicare che il deposito è una mescolanza di macerie di demolizione con depositi fluviali, preferirei parlare di depositi fluviali attuali (cioè ancora in corso di evoluzione con trasformazioni di pochi anni fa
Paul O'Brien Jun 26, 2008:
message from my geologist friend: "Bah, dunque. Se come scrive il tuo amico sono presenti anche urban fill or rubble è quantomeno impropria la datazione al pleistocene superiore – olocene. E’ vero che l’olocene comprende tutto il periodo dalla fine delle
Paul O'Brien Jun 25, 2008:
Of course you don't. And BTW, his initial reaction was against "fill".
James (Jim) Davis (asker) Jun 25, 2008:
Need an English geologist.
Paul O'Brien Jun 25, 2008:
wait a bit. my italian geologist friend is onto it and you've got till monday.
James (Jim) Davis (asker) Jun 25, 2008:
I told him most of what I have written on this page. Deposits helps me no more or less than fill. I will probably go for "surface deposits". "surface fill" would be acceptable.
Paul O'Brien Jun 25, 2008:
don't agree. "deposits" is "depositi" plain and simple. you gave him the impression that it was wrong (you're evidently trying to talk yourself out of and into something) and he reconfirmed the sensation you transmitted. :-)
James (Jim) Davis (asker) Jun 25, 2008:
Client's response My contact with the client is a tunnel engineer, this is his email:
"Sì, fill non è corretto. I geologi suggeriscono di usare "Deposits"
Ciao"
James (Jim) Davis (asker) Jun 25, 2008:
Context holocene late pleistocene i.e. 130,000 years ago to present day. Brescia is Roman city. "It is the surface layer goes down 5 m."
Paul O'Brien Jun 25, 2008:
i don't need to tell you that the definition comes from the function, whether this is natural or anthropical. but you said earlier that it was all natural. you're confusing me now (as baldrick said to blackadder).
James (Jim) Davis (asker) Jun 25, 2008:
Absolutely not a place name and absolutely not archeaological. It is tunnelling. Unit R is the surface stratum of the alluvial deposit. It consists of genuine alluvium, roba riportata dal fiume but also of urban fill or rubble "riporti antropici". It is followed by units 2 and 3 both of which are alluvium, but older and with different granulometries.
Paul O'Brien Jun 25, 2008:
are you sure this is not some type of archaeolgical excavation with material accumulated artificially? and are you sure that "Riporti" is not the name of a place in this context?
Joanna M Cas (X) Jun 25, 2008:
will do
James (Jim) Davis (asker) Jun 25, 2008:
I have till Monday on this translation, but I've been looking for the term for years. It comes up every now and again. So please ask if its not too much trouble.
Joanna M Cas (X) Jun 24, 2008:
How urgent is it Jim? I'm meeting with a UK geologist on Friday.......

Proposed translations

53 mins
Selected

alluvium

I had given the answer "surface deposits", but having seen this I think "alluvium" is more precise in the context of a river.

See Wikipedia:

Alluvium (from the Latin, alluvius, from alluere, "to wash against") is soil or sediments deposited by a river or other running water. Alluvium is typically made up of a variety of materials, including fine particles of silt and clay and larger particles of sand and gravel.



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Note added at 1 hr (2008-06-24 16:39:34 GMT)
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You're welcome, I just hope it does help!
Note from asker:
Thanks for all the help Sarah, I'm still reading your old links, have them in the email notification.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks Sarah"
+1
33 mins

fill

Guido Chiesa geological dictionary: riporto di ghiaia = gravel fill.

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Note added at 35 mins (2008-06-24 16:12:20 GMT)
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this is more precise than my previous answer because backfill is usually a human operation whereas here you seem to be talinngg about the natural occurrences on the surface. right?

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Note added at 3 hrs (2008-06-24 19:24:51 GMT)
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http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&sa=X&oi=...

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Note added at 3 hrs (2008-06-24 19:25:21 GMT)
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you were barking up the wrong tree with your google search for guido chiesa.

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Note added at 4 hrs (2008-06-24 19:40:36 GMT)
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"The sand and gravel fill probably represents valley-train deposition during several episodes of pre-Illianoian ice margin advance and retreat".

http://books.google.com/books?id=3u6lhOyswgEC&pg=RA1-PA114&l...

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Note added at 15 hrs (2008-06-25 06:51:51 GMT)
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you look like you're trying to make life difficult for yourself. how is "natura caotica e eterometrica, con prevalenza di ghiaia poligenica evoluta con ciottoli, in presenza di abbondante matrice sabbioso limosa avana" equatable with "urban deposits"?

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Note added at 15 hrs (2008-06-25 07:25:32 GMT)
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dsp-psd.pwgsc.gc.ca/Collection-R/GSC-CGC/M44-2000/M44-2000-A3E.pdf

"The erratic designation for these boulders is provisional because no underlying bedrock is exposed near their occurrences. However, even if the gravel fill were underlain by gneissic bedrock the large sizes of these boulders compared with surrounding sandy to cobble gravel requires an explanation".

Note from asker:
Who is Guido Chiesa?
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&q=%22Guido+Chiesa%22+%22geological+dictionary%22&btnG=Search
Yes I am interested in the pure geology of it at this stage. You can have the process of basin fill in geology, but this much more precise. I've met the word used like this before (pre-Google days) and not found an answer.
Now that last link really is convincing Paul
It was so convincing I was about to write it in, but it doesn't work. You see all the glacial (clay) and river (alluvium) deposits in the river fan have "filled" the "river fan", and he has divided these into three "horizons" or "units", but he only calls the first one "riporti" (which to me suggests "rubble" or "urban deposits") and he numbers the other units one and two, but they all "fill" really.
Thanks Paul
Peer comment(s):
agree Valeria Lattanzi
1 day 21 hrs
Something went wrong...
35 mins

Embankments

Hoepli gives (di terra) embankment; filling, fill. carry backfill.
Maybe embankments?

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Note added at 18 hrs (2008-06-25 09:39:20 GMT)
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Maybe sediments if you already use deposits somewhere else?
Note from asker:
Thanks
Something went wrong...
5 days

alluvial deposits (layers of)

My geologist says: 'layers of various thickness and coarseness of alluvial deposit. This is how you describe them. Any geologist would know what you are talking about. This may sound flippant and might seem too obvious but that's how it is!
My confidence level reflects the fact that, whilst I know nothing about this area at all, I have faith in my informant.
Note from asker:
Thanks Joanna. The problem is that I have 3 of these layers all clearly identified as "deposizioni alluviali", and only the upper one is called sub-classified as "riporti". I think this shows that "riporti" is used very loosely and generically by Italian geologists and has no direct equivalent in English. In the translation, I dodged the issue and just called it the "surface layer" or "surface deposit" I can't remember now, so I think that Sarah has to have the points
Something went wrong...
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