French term
versé au débat
Dans le contexte d'une saisie en référé pour atteinte aux droits d'un détenteur de brevet: les éléments servent à établir la vraisemblance du contrefaçon.
Mar 2, 2008 00:28: Katarina Peters Created KOG entry
Mar 2, 2008 21:31: Yolanda Broad changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/621508">Katarina Peters's</a> old entry - "versé au débat"" to ""presented for discussion""
Mar 2, 2008 21:33: Yolanda Broad changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/761">Yolanda Broad's</a> old entry - "versé au débats"" to ""presented for discussion""
Mar 2, 2008 21:44: Yolanda Broad changed "Removed from KOG" from "versé au débats > produced as evidence by <a href="/profile/761">Yolanda Broad</a>" to "Reason: asker wishes to enter corrected term"
Proposed translations
presented for discussion
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Note added at 4 hrs (2008-03-02 00:24:37 GMT) Post-grading
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Googled quotes:
5.7 Corporate Discussion Items. The following new items were presented for discussion. Acid Sulphate Soils. Cr J Daw visited the Local Government Week and ...
Briefing Paper presented for discussion to Northland Craft Trust and Whangarei District Council. Cc. Whangarei Quarry Gardens, Quarry Craft Cooperative ...
Professor William Tracy presented for discussion the first reading of the University
The revised Scheme was presented for discussion at the Board seminar on 31st May in order that Chair’s action could be taken prior to the Public Board ...
agree |
Bourth (X)
: Just "presented" even, or "brought forward"
19 mins
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Thanks, Bourth
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agree |
Zofia Wislocka
: provided, etc.
23 mins
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Thanks, Zofia
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agree |
Victoria Porter-Burns
:
1 hr
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Thanks, Victoria!
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neutral |
writeaway
: any refs to back this?/Dans le contexte d'une saisie en référé pour atteinte aux droits d'un détenteur de brevet: les éléments servent à établir la vraisemblance du contrefaçon.
2 hrs
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Most of the time I base myself on logic and experience. For your benefit, I googled up some refs, please see above.
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injected into the debate
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Note added at 1 hr (2008-03-01 21:34:26 GMT)
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yes, "argument" better here
The use of the definite article here would be somewhat bizarre as this is the first reference to "débat." Also, is that really the term for in-court disputation of facts? Should it not rather be "argument"? |
(US) added to the record; (UK) made a (trial) exhibit
This, surely, is a formal description and not a colloquial expression.
the suspension is closed; person must pay a $47.50 reinstatement fee; the disposition is sent to DHSMV; the citation and points are added to the record ...
added to the debate
"elements de prouve versé au débat" is, elements of proof (evidence) were added to the proceeding (debate), because that's the sense of the phrase. Adding information to a debate(procedure judiciaire) showing that his (X) version is true (or just the truth).
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Note added at 3 hrs (2008-03-02 00:05:52 GMT) Post-grading
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because that's the sense of the phrase. Adding information to a debate(procedure judiciaire) showing that his (X) version is true (or just the truth
adduced as evidence
A little research would have come up with the right answer. I'm not sure what this says about this whole process, but it's troubling that 5 answers that are completely off base could be submitted, and four other people then 'agree' to various of those answers, and one answer finally be chosen, without anybody even getting close to the any of the various correct answers that could have been submitted-- all this for a French phrase that is basic legal French, with over 5,000 Ghits (add the totals from three searches, spelling the first word 'versé', then 'versés', then 'versées'.) I don't want to sound like a schoolmarm, but something is not working here.
I'm not bothering with examples or citations here-- you've all got google on your computers, and there are thousands.
There, I've just destroyed any chance I ever had of being elected "Miss Congeniality'.
agree |
writeaway
: yes, Tom was in the right direction. submitted/produced as exhibits. It has to be 'débatS' in the context. clearly a typo (or dictaphone transcription error). but everyone was pleased with answer chosen. 'congenial' of you to post right answer.
41 mins
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neutral |
Adrian MM. (X)
: Thx for revealing your 'tender' gender. You assume your answer is abs. right and the other 5 are 'off base', but adducing evidence does not connote the items are presented to the court and go on record.//Excuse me, schoolmarm & 'Miss' Congeniality!
59 mins
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1. What makes you think I'm a woman, Tom? 2. The rest of your comment is also incorrect. That is exactly what 'adduced as evidence' means. And it is one of many standard translations of 'verse au debats'.
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Discussion
Anyway.
You may be right about there being no (stable, standardized, relevant) difference between uses of "adduce" and "produce" in this context (my apologies too for failing to notice that you had suggested this as well). The relevant definitions of the two words on dictionary.com, for example, do suggest a difference of the kind I mention -- between citing evidence in favour of a case or argument, and actually presenting the items that constitute the evidence. The definitions at http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com (derived from West's Encyclopedia of American Law) are very explicit on the fact that "produce" refers to physical presentation of evidence, and not specific in this way on "adduce." None of this shows that you're mistaken, of course. You might want to be a bit gentler about making your case next time all the same, it seems to me.
My bad for overlooking in this case (not in general) a most obvious source -- official translations of French legislation online. For an example translation of the plural form of the phrase, see the first sentence of Article 344 of the Code of Criminal Procedure in French here:
http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCodeArticle.do?idArticle...
and in English here:
http://195.83.177.9/code/liste.phtml?lang=uk&c=34&r=3965
or Article 765 of the Penal Code in French here:
http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCodeArticle.do?idArticle...
and in English here:
http://195.83.177.9/code/liste.phtml?lang=uk&c=39&r=7265
In both cases they have it as PROduced, not ADduced. If I get it right, the difference is that in the former case the evidence is physically presented(!), whereas in the latter it is cited in favour of an argument.
See here:
http://www.wordreference.com/definition/adduce
and here: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=adduce
and definition 6 here:
http://www.wordreference.com/definition/produce
But see also the singular form of the phrase (*ahem!*), "versé au débat", which is the one found in the document I am translating, in the sixth-to-last sentence of Article 41-2 of the Code de procédure pénale, in the original here:
http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCodeArticle.do?idArticle...
and in English here:
http://195.83.177.9/code/liste.phtml?lang=uk&c=34&r=3907
In this case they don't even bother translating the phrase at all, suggesting that it isn't a strict formula but simply a way of indicating that something has been brought into the proceedings -- presented, I'd almost be tempted to say.
I will in fact use "produced" instead. I'll see about getting this entry fixed up.