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raise and lower a roof at the same time
provisional and delegated budget
Sep 27, 2005 22:51
18 yrs ago
English term

Descriptive

Non-PRO English Art/Literary Linguistics UK spelling query
Dear All,

I have used this word as an alternative to description as it is in my English dictionary but it has been criticised as not being English, in particular UK English which I was not asked for in the first instance anyway.

Same problem for the word "recognize" but my UK spell checker did not pick it up.

The word "volumen" is in my Oxford dictionary but the editor does not know this word.

I am at a loss as to what to think and would appreciate any advice as my terms have been criticized for being lame English -whatever that might be, but I assume the comment was made by someone pompous who is not really an editor.

TIA
Responses
4 +2 descriptive
5 +9 descriptive is not a synonym for description, at least not in U.S. English
4 +6 having the qualities of a description
4 +1 description

Discussion

Anna Maria Augustine (X) (asker) Sep 28, 2005:
David Yes, it is unreasonable, and I did initially send just under 300 words but that didn't suffice. It is a paid test but rates are below my usual....basically I'm very unhappy with whole situation because my work is always complimented but I guess there is just no pleasing some people. Thanks.
David Sirett Sep 28, 2005:
Anna, a 1000-word test is unreasonable no matter how long you're given. May I suggest that next time you tell the prospective customer that you'll do no more than, say, 300 words?
Charlie Bavington Sep 28, 2005:
...it was not. If I saw "descriptive" used as a noun, I'd say the same. The fact the text has been translated from French or anything else is irrelevant. Does it make sense as BE - Yes or No? No. End of.
juvera Sep 28, 2005:
Just a note; Shakespeare didn't coin "elbow". He may have been the first person to write it down in this form, but the word comes from Old English 'elboga', elnboga, related to Dutch elleboog and German Ellenbogen.
Charlie Bavington Sep 28, 2005:
Ah yes, thank heaven for the Bard. Before him, we had to call it "Ye bendie parte in ye middel of ye arme". Nonsense. Elbow comes from OE. Your editor was employed to ensure to that what you delivered was acceptable as a piece of BE. His opinion is that..
Laurel Porter (X) Sep 28, 2005:
Devil's advocate: It does seem to me that I've heard "descriptive" used as a noun in certain circumstances. However, I can find no proof - and the context I recall was writers'/educators' jargon, in any case. I'd still counsel against its use.
David Sirett Sep 28, 2005:
French "the official language in Britain under James 1st"? Maybe used in diplomacy and at court, alongside English, but not "official", surely? And the reason English has so many French words is through continuous contact since 1066, not just James I.
Anna Maria Augustine (X) (asker) Sep 27, 2005:
But why not tell me which English is required beforehand instead of just giving it to someone pompous afterwards - who doesn't even speak French (and the original text was in French), and who hadn't even read the original text. Someone who hasn't crossed the cultural divide either...
Also, at some point in the text I had the term "h�tel chinois" yet this editor insisted I should have put "Japanese Inn". Well, I'm not apologising for that !
Grammatical differences between French and English can be confusing but Shakespeare would not have made a fuss about it. He coined over 180 new words including "elbow" which didn't exist beforehand. French was the official language in Britain under James 1st which explains why we have so many words of French origin. Thanks again to all.
Anna Maria Augustine (X) (asker) Sep 27, 2005:
Actually the word "descriptif" in French was a title then a description of the book was given. I uses descriptive as an alternative. I was not asked for UK or AE so I stuck to international as the books are destined for an international audience who most likely speak English as a second language. My UK spell checker did not pick up on recognize so I assumed it was okay. Volumen was posted on this site yesterday and is now in the glossaries for anyone who hasn't come across it. It's an interesting word. Thanks to everyone for your help in clearing this up.
Elizabeth Lyons Sep 27, 2005:
Anna, I agree that we need the sentence in which you used "descriptive". I think spelling is the issue with recognise and volumen is arcane as well as archaic, imho. : )
TranslateThis Sep 27, 2005:
As to *volumen* I sure would use it in Spanish but have not come across this word in English and it cannot be found in Merriam Webster either.
TranslateThis Sep 27, 2005:
Could you provide more context? It would be easier for us to help you if we had the whole sentence in question (the one where you use the word *descriptive*). Otherwise it's like shooting in the dark. *Recognize* is spelled *recognise* in British English

Responses

+2
9 mins
Selected

descriptive

It seems a fine word to me and could be exchanged with the word description, with the sentence recast to use it as an adjective rather than a noun. For example . . ."The photo caption was a vivid description of the action of the soldiers" could be rewritten to say "The descriptive caption painted a vivid portrait of life as a soldier." I'm trying to think of examples where that wouldn't work, but right now can't come up with one. Hope that helps

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Note added at 14 mins (2005-09-27 23:05:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Oh . .about recognize - are you referring to the spelling? or some other problem (can't help you too much re: spelling - I'm U.S. - but I'm sure someone among this good team can help you there.
Peer comment(s):
agree Elizabeth Lyons : Exactly! And perhaps in the UK they spell recognize with an "s"??I think there is some hair cleaving going on here. : ))
1 min
thanks, Liz! we're on the same (dictionary) page!
neutral Charlie Bavington : I must say, I read Anna's "as an alternative ro description" to mean as a noun, and while your re-wordings are fine, I've never seen descriptive used as a noun...
12 mins
Sure, point taken. I guess, in looking for fresh responses, I consider an "alternative" anything that can be woven into the text in a fresh way. Thanks, Charlie
agree sergey (X) : serving to describe or inform or characterized by description
18 mins
Thanks, sergey . . . a nice, lively discussion taking place here!
neutral Marian Greenfield : Anna used descriptive as a noun, which most readers would find quite odd....
36 mins
well, yes, readers would find it odd to see descriptive used as a noun. (I don't see that Anna's initial question tells us that she did, indeed use it as a noun), and as I say above, it would need to be recast as an adjective.
neutral Tony M : Have to say I agree with CB and Marian here
16 hrs
ok
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you to all. In a creative text you can use an adjective as a noun. It is difficult not to be indignant when asked for a 1000 word test in less than 2 days, then you get criticism. However..."
+9
10 mins

descriptive is not a synonym for description, at least not in U.S. English

And volumen would not seem right either... I'm not even sure what you mean... volume?????

If I were you, I'd apologize (apologise) profusely and explain those couple of terms away as a lapsus mental....

Sorry to be so brutal, but I don't think you'd be doing yourself a favor by trying to defend those particular choices...
Peer comment(s):
agree Elizabeth Lyons : I agree with you on volumen, (adjective)/description (noun)//Agreed. It should not be used typically as a noun in English. It never occurred to me that it was what she meant : )
2 mins
I mean pretty much what you say... descriptive (adjective)/description (noun)... they're not synonyms... and using descriptive as a noun is odd.... she did indeed... thanks....
agree Jack Doughty : Not in UK English either.
2 mins
thanks
agree Charlie Bavington : Volumen is archaic (i.e. before AE was even invented!!) for volume or parchment. Agree fully on the descriptive thing, I just took a few minutes to bang on about it (see below) :-)
8 mins
thanks Charlie... I totally agree with you and your posting....
agree TranslateThis
18 mins
thanks
agree jennifer newsome (X)
2 hrs
thanks
agree Gayle Wallimann : Agree to all points.
6 hrs
thanks
agree Laurel Porter (X) : I might have changed "apologize" to "explain", but it's possible that Anna may already have been inappropriately indignant with this editor. In this case, apologies are indeed in order, IMO.
9 hrs
thanks
agree Tony M
16 hrs
agree Alfa Trans (X)
2 days 12 hrs
Something went wrong...
+6
15 mins

having the qualities of a description

Speaking as a Brit, I don't think I've ever heard descriptive as a noun = to description (i.e unlike the way descriptif can work in French), and I never, ever use it. To me (without looking in a dict.), it means only "having description" - it was a descriptive piece = the piece contained many passages containing descriptions (implication being - not much plot or action!). Your editor is quite right on this one, IMO.

"-ise" is yer bog standard ending for the majority of words where AE has "-ize" ; there are exceptions, but recognise ain't one. Your editor may be being a little harsh, but if he asked for BE, you should have given him BE. No BE mother-tongue writer would naturally write "recognize"

The OED says it's archaic, and suggests that either volume or parchment would be the modern day equivalent. In the correct context, however, why not...? I guess once the guy was on a roll with "descriptive" and "recognize", he just thought he'd give you a hard time over everything little thing.

And nota bene - just 'cos a word's in the dictionary, it doesn't mean people use it.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 37 mins (2005-09-27 23:28:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The OED doesn't have "descriptive" as a noun, BTW.

And true enough, recognize slips through the UK English spell check in Word. Altho' as I said, I don't think (m)any BE natives would spell it like that.
Peer comment(s):
agree Elizabeth Lyons : Charlie, maybe I am just being dense, but isn't Anna really talking about descriptive as an adjective? And description as a noun?/Ah, oui.
9 mins
Well, like I said, I read "as an alternative to description" to mean "used as noun", which, given that Anna is a French speaker and you CAN use "descriptif" as a noun in French, seemed to be what she meant.
agree sarahl (X) : speaking as a near Yank, I've never heard descriptive as a noun on this side of the pond either.
49 mins
agree Vicky Papaprodromou
7 hrs
agree Laurel Porter (X) : Totally agree, especially with your NB. There are thousands of little-known or used wds in dictionaries - we can't take their presence as a guarantee of their being readily understood.
9 hrs
agree Jörgen Slet
12 hrs
agree Tony M : Totally agree, except that OED and Oxford Writer's English both suggest 'recognize', with -s- as an alternative; but as a native Brit, this grates to me...
16 hrs
Something went wrong...
+1
8 hrs

description

"Descriptive" is not a noun in standard English.

"Recognize" is perfectly acceptable UK usage, according to Chambers and SOED (though "recognise" is much more common), but you must be consistent and use ize/iza forms wherever appropriate in your text.

"Volumen" is used only for "a roll (of parchment, etc.)" according to SOED, is that your context?
Peer comment(s):
agree Tony M : Totally!
8 hrs
Something went wrong...
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